Latest post Thu, Jun 9 2011 12:05 AM by Ra-ey Saleh. 45 replies.
Page 3 of 4 (46 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next >
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Fri, May 20 2011 10:02 PM In reply to

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    TCurren:
    You should be using an external scope so you know what is coming out. :-0

    Absolutely, I'm a huge advocate for having the right gear for that stuff, but often in the Offline phase the producer will say "that shot looks a little hot" or "can you dial back the blue" and in the offline, we don't always have a scope.

    Thanks for the tip on the Loop Play.  I think I had heard or read that before, but being that I'm not in CC mode all that often it is easy to forget things like that.

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Fri, May 20 2011 10:07 PM In reply to

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    You can also just press Shift+Spacebar. ;).

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Fri, May 20 2011 10:17 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Burbank, CA
    • Posts 2,994
    • Points 37,755

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    You can also just press Shift+Spacebar. ;).

     

    Not on my system. Is this different on Mac or did you map to the Shift + Spacebar?

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

    Burbank, Ca

    www.alphadogs.tv

    www.digitalservicestation.com

    www.editorslounge.com

  • Fri, May 20 2011 10:26 PM In reply to

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Yeah, I must have mapped Play Loop to Shift+Spacebar along time ago and forgot, so I thought it was an official MC command. Sorry about that... and it is a nice feature to know about.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Fri, May 20 2011 11:10 PM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Orlando, FL
    • Posts 506
    • Points 6,795

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Kenton.VanNatten:
    My Magic 8 Ball said "Signs Point to Yes" when I asked if the $300 FCPX was going to be a standalone version.

    I don't know one way or the other, nor does anyone else who can say. But even if Motion, Compressor, Color, etc. are separately sold, that's still not the same as making secondary color an option, which is what your post seemed to say.

    - Oliver

     

  • Sat, May 21 2011 12:18 AM In reply to

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    It's crazy, I think it's safe to say most people on here feel the Symphony CC is completely out-dated.  When it first came out if was trail-blazing in the fact that you could do some serious grading without going up to a Davinci, but lack of development for a long time now means that there are lots of other NLEs with equal if not better CC capabilities.

    So if Avid are serious about differentiating between the products more, what I'd hope to see is the present CC (with all it's Symphony capabilities) put into all MC products, and a brand new CC (up to today’s pretty high standards) for the Symphony.  I think that would be one way to keep everyone happy.  A perfectly 'good' CC for everyone, an amazing CC for people willing to pay more, who want a high-end CC but also keep within the Avid environment.  Pipe-dream maybe, but with Resolve Lite releasing in June/July Avid have to think of something.  This is a completely free version of Resolve that you can use for life if you want with no license restrictions.  It will have all the functionality of the present Resolve on the Mac but with a handful of limitations that, to be honest, would still make it a viable option for most professionals: You can ingest any format, but can 'only' export up to HD; and only 2 nodes maximum for correcting.  Seriously, you could finish most shows on this no problem.  Also, this latest version of Resolve has better compatibility with Avid as well.  But it's still round-tripping.  This is where Avid have a massive upper-hand (one that they've relied upon for years) but it's getting a little tired.  I'm still naively hoping Avid pull a rabbit out of the hat with their Symphony CC.

    Ra-ey

    Symphony Nitris v7, Media Composer v7, Artist Color, ISIS v4.1, Unity MediaNetwork v5.4, Sapphire v6.1, Boris Continuum Complete v8.1.1, AvidFX... [view my complete system specs]

    Media Composer 6 Certified User

    Media Composer 6 Certified Professional

    ra-eysaleh.com

    LinkedIn

    Showreel

  • Sat, May 21 2011 1:34 AM In reply to

    • C.A.M.
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Fri, Feb 13 2009
    • RTVF - DALLAS
    • Posts 45
    • Points 635

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Haze:
    There's no end to MC users wanting Symphony features built into MC.   Don't all of us want it all?

    You are missing a lot if you think this the only group that believes in killing Symphony. 

    There are many Symphony owners who see sharply decreasing value in the product. It has been a long time since I have personally thought Symphony to be a good value. It is not a product which excites me or one easily evangelized. At this point it does not justify the premium for purchases, upgrades, hardware, etc. And this is not the first time the product has been in this corner. 

    There are other users like me who have no problem paying more to get more. However no one wants to feel like they are getting taken or throwing money away. That can be dangerous sentiments to seed among your most loyal customers. 

    Over the course of 12 years we've owned 5 or 6 Symphony systems. IMHO has been a steady slide since V2...Meridien.  

    Personally I feel that Avid has unnecessarily crippled Composer to protect the aging Symphony feature set. 

    This whole argument is like fighting over table scraps. Both products could use a lot of improving. Composer has needs pushed by the constant challenge of competition and long standing requests of users. 

    Just let em have the damn contextual color corrector and cross conversion, in a file based world neither are Filet Mignon anymore anyway. 

    Symphony Nitris DX, Composer Nitris DX, MC Soft [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, May 23 2011 2:59 PM In reply to

    • Haze
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 764
    • Points 10,205

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    C.A.Magid:
    You are missing a lot if you think this the only group that believes in killing Symphony. 

    I'm well aware of the voices calling for the end of Symphony.  Besides MC users, you have disenchanted Symphony users tired of paying more for a modicum of added value.  And of course you have the DS owners who would like to clarify Avid's product line up with DS as the only top tier finishing solution.

     

    It certainly feels like it's the ninth inning with 2 outs and Casey's up to bat.  

     

    Avid needs to knock it out of the park with any announcements about Symphony's future.  I doubt any of the fans will be excited about a base hit.

    Avid DS 11 | Z800, Symphony 6.5 | HP xw 8600, MC 6.5 | HP Z400, Unity Storage [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, May 29 2011 11:22 AM In reply to

    • YOP
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 160
    • Points 2,185

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    I work on both softwares. I have to say that I don't see any difference between the softwares apart for the extra CC tools which are great but I think they should come with MC especially when some people buy Nitris DX for their MC. For the extra money Avid charge for Symphony we should a lot more! I think Avid should make 2 levels of MC with the option to get the CC tolls for some extra money NOT like now, and make the Avid DS system as the high end finishing system. As for hardware, if avid whishes to approach to the new coming editiors who have no attachment to Avid's systems, Avid should go all the way with making all softwares as software only with a rage of approved hardwares from Marox Aja and others. That will keep Avid away from the Headache of Planning Design and Support hardware which cost a lot and only few buy. That way Avid's products will be cheap competitive and more Effective.

    System - Avid Media Composer 2020.6 + Symphony Option, HP Z840, ZTurbo 500GB for System,Windows 10, CPU E5-2650V3 10 Core, 128GB RAM, AMD FirePro W7100... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Jun 3 2011 12:41 AM In reply to

    • Mike Wolf
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Los Angeles, CA
    • Posts 101
    • Points 1,355

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    TCurren:

    Best part is, I didn't ask the question. But it gave me a chance to say "see, I'm not the only one!" ;-)

     

    You're welcome!

     

    artist•technician / Great Eyes / Symphony & Resolve [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jun 7 2011 9:53 PM In reply to

    • Sam Z
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Fri, Jan 25 2008
    • Posts 70
    • Points 945

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Ra-ey Saleh:
    what I'd hope to see is the present CC (with all it's Symphony capabilities) put into all MC products, and a brand new CC (up to today’s pretty high standards) for the Symphony.

    I like this idea. There are still some other things that I think would make a "Finishing System" in this day and age (the ability to do 2k and 4k timelines, dealing with LUTs, complicated sounds standards, and output to new Digital Film Initiative standards). But what kind of finishing system do they want to build? Who is the target market? Which brings us to two questions Avid has to ask itself:

    "What projects/clients finish on a Symphony?"

    "What projects/clients do we want to finish on a Sympohony?"

    In my mind documentaries, televisions shows, and promos finish on Symphony, and they could go after the low-budget/indie feature market. Now, is that a growth market?

  • Wed, Jun 8 2011 12:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Sam, you actually bring up a very good point and funnily enough something I was talking to my boss about the other day in terms of 3D Steroscopic and Avid.

    Now people who saw the demo of 3D at NAB have all said that Avid are gonna be leading the way with it on their next release.  We weren't there to see the demo, which is why we were speculating about what the tools might be (NOT on here, but between ourselves ;-)).  In the end, my boss stated that no matter what the 3D tools were Symphony would never be a one stop shop for 3D, or at least have the correction tools that something like Ocula has, even if you had I/O.  My point was: does Symphony need to have the 'best' tools to still be a viable option for most post companies who make broadcast TV?  In the end, when 3D really takes off, no broadcaster is gonna wanna pay for an extended amount of post on a 3D program.  They're still gonna want fast-turnarond (as fast as it can be).  No one will be able to afford to spend 2 years on post (like Avatar), and as most shows are watched once by a viewer, why would they.  Surely, if Symphony had the basic tools to do a reasonable 3D job, that would be 'good enough' for most broadcasters.

    The much maligned MC/Symphony CC has been doing a 'good enough' job for grading on most TV shows for 10 years.

    Not really answering your question Sam, just a thought I had about where Avid might/should be pitching their Finishing System.

    Ra-ey

    Symphony Nitris v7, Media Composer v7, Artist Color, ISIS v4.1, Unity MediaNetwork v5.4, Sapphire v6.1, Boris Continuum Complete v8.1.1, AvidFX... [view my complete system specs]

    Media Composer 6 Certified User

    Media Composer 6 Certified Professional

    ra-eysaleh.com

    LinkedIn

    Showreel

  • Wed, Jun 8 2011 7:51 AM In reply to

    • riojapj
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • London, UK
    • Posts 137
    • Points 1,450

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Ra-ey Saleh:
    when 3D really takes off

    In the UK, Sky is the only broadcaster with a committment (i.e. cash) for stereo 3D. For almost all the other major broadcasters, including the BBC, stereo is not a priority technically or financially. The beeb is currently making a big thing about Wimbledon in 3D, but its not an in-house job.

    Ra-ey Saleh:
    no broadcaster is gonna wanna pay for an extended amount of post on a 3D program.

    Indeed they are, because currently they are forced to. True, it depends on the 'amount', which funnily enough correlates very closely with how much skimping and/or monkeying around happened in production! Strange that!

    Ra-ey Saleh:
    Surely, if Symphony had the basic tools to do a reasonable 3D job, that would be 'good enough' for most broadcasters.

    Get a copy of Sky's tech spec. The parameters for depth grading alone are exacting and the stereo component is subject to the kind of rigorous test and measurement found in 2D specs. Sky doesn't appear yet prepared to allow anything other than the most technically perfect 3D to get to air at the moment.

    Costs will come down inevitably, but for now, many shows are finishing on big boys like Mistika. If you're running that particular beast, you'll charging three or four grand a day regardless, so you're laughing.

    Ra-ey Saleh:
    My point was: does Symphony need to have the 'best' tools to still be a viable option for most post companies who make broadcast TV?

    It's numbers. Most post companies who make broadcast tv aren't finishing in stereo 3D. A select bunch of facilities are milking this for the moment. If stereo finishing is what Avid have in mind, Symphony needs to have the 'best' tools to be a coherent proposition. Apologies for trotting out the usual guff, but for most situations (beam splitters particularly), you'll need a host of eye-matching tools; integrated geometry/keystoning corrections and gradated cc, preferably partly or fully automated. Vector and particularly shape corrections require a disparity application to the right eye to avoid expensive duplication. Live convergence control. Interaxial interpolation (dreaming). Dual-stream 1080p playback with all those adjustments live, in realtime (and realtime has historically been a strong hand for Avid at its price point). That's basic stereo finishing. There's a whole other world of pain when it comes to effects integration etc.

    It's a tall order. They may not be there first, but Avid generally comes up with a proper solution.

    MC 8.10.0 Mac Pro (late 2013) CPU - 3 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon E5 RAM - 64GB DDR3 GFX - AMD FirePro D700 6GB (x2) [view my complete system specs]

    Paul

  • Wed, Jun 8 2011 9:34 AM In reply to

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Paul,

    I completely agree that the UK won't be trail-blazing and serious 3D content anytime soon (with the exception of some live sports I'd imagine), but this isn't exactly new.  From what I understand most shows are still filmed SD, drama and live shows excepted.  I've not worked in London for 6 years, but I have many friends who do and that's what they tell me.

    It's crazy, but it's the US Cable Broadcasters who are leading the charge (as they did with HD), and I know my company and another are researching our first 3D for them, with a view to a full series maybe next year.  To be blunt, there's no way that's gonna happen with the present rate card of most 3D finishing houses.  This is the main reason that we've been actively looking into (what feels like) every possible piece of 3D software and workflow - as we do all our Onlines in-house normally.  And I can tell you, every application we looked into had it's drawbacks: great correction tools, but no true 3D compositing environment; awkward I/O; correction tools but no decent grading; and vice versa etc...  

    Avid has always had the carrot that you could do most things all within one app (the grader is the best example of that), or plugins that allow you to stay in the Avid Enviroment.  Now whether it's DS or Symhony, if they can give either or both the 3D tools needed to complete a 3D show, I can tell you this will give a major green light to those Cable Broadcasters to go ahead with more 3D series.  It's only the present cost that's stopping them.  And I know Avid are working closely with many of them in terms of 3D specifications.

    When I first heard about 3D TV I thought, what a waste of Avid's time investing R&D is a process that many broadcasters won't touch for years.  Now, I think it would be genius.  Completely ahead of the game, and a way to make people buy into an Avid 3D workflow early on, at a price that suddenly makes it affordable.

    We'll have to wait and see.

    Ra-ey

    Symphony Nitris v7, Media Composer v7, Artist Color, ISIS v4.1, Unity MediaNetwork v5.4, Sapphire v6.1, Boris Continuum Complete v8.1.1, AvidFX... [view my complete system specs]

    Media Composer 6 Certified User

    Media Composer 6 Certified Professional

    ra-eysaleh.com

    LinkedIn

    Showreel

  • Wed, Jun 8 2011 10:51 AM In reply to

    • riojapj
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • London, UK
    • Posts 137
    • Points 1,450

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Ra-ey Saleh:
    every application we looked into had it's drawbacks: great correction tools, but no true 3D compositing environment; awkward I/O; correction tools but no decent grading; and vice versa etc...  

    Absolutely, all the traditional NLE manufacturers have faced a tricky issue of how to engineer and integrate these new tools, AND to work together in one box, as you say. It's not an editorial paradigm shift, but the rest  of the software tech certainly is.

    Ra-ey Saleh:
    Avid has always had the carrot that you could do most things all within one app (the grader is the best example of that), or plugins that allow you to stay in the Avid Enviroment.

    Agreed.

    Ra-ey Saleh:
    whether it's DS or Symhony, if they can give either or both the 3D tools needed to complete a 3D show, I can tell you this will give a major green light to those Cable Broadcasters to go ahead with more 3D series.  It's only the present cost that's stopping them.

    Prediction Hmm - As long as the glasses are around (and the current satellite infrastructure), it'll be a novelty within a niche for tv; spectacular cultural events, some sports, impossibly expensive docs and maybe a one-off drama special. The various autostereoscopic displays are frankly unwatchable at present, but when they do eventually crack that nut, at least the production and post tools will have matured somewhat.

    MC 8.10.0 Mac Pro (late 2013) CPU - 3 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon E5 RAM - 64GB DDR3 GFX - AMD FirePro D700 6GB (x2) [view my complete system specs]

    Paul

Page 3 of 4 (46 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next >

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller