Latest post Fri, Mar 25 2011 6:10 PM by switthaus. 52 replies.
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  • Sat, Mar 5 2011 7:54 AM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    (cricket...cricket...)

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

    Burbank, Ca

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  • Tue, Mar 8 2011 7:44 PM In reply to

    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    Guys, completely legitimate questions.  We've traditionally priced Symphony upgrades higher but this is something we need to reevaluate for the future. And, I promise to do just that.  We do have a separate developement and testing path for Symphony (it's a turnkey solution) and that adds to the upgrade price.  But that doesn't mean we shouldn't look at the pricing model and evaluate for future releases.  

    Dave

  • Tue, Mar 8 2011 7:58 PM In reply to

    • Abeyta
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    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    Dave Avid PM:
    We do have a separate developement and testing path for Symphony (it's a turnkey solution) and that adds to the upgrade price.

     

    Thanks for the response Dave. The Symphony uses the same Nitris DX box that the MC DX combo uses. So isn't the hardware exactly the same? Not sure where the development and testing path would differ.

    Mac Pro 2013 6 Core 3.5ghz, MC Symphony 8.7, 16GB RAM, D700, OS 10.10.5, Ultrastudio 4K, Pegasus2 R6 12TB [view my complete system specs]

     

    Derrick Abeyta | Blu Pixel

    Phoenix, Arizona

    www.blupixelpost.com

     

  • Tue, Mar 8 2011 8:04 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    Probably in testing things like source side correction. But that is broken and hasn't been fixed yet... so what again am I paying more for?

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

    Burbank, Ca

    www.alphadogs.tv

    www.digitalservicestation.com

    www.editorslounge.com

  • Tue, Mar 8 2011 10:41 PM In reply to

    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    Dave Avid PM:

    Guys, completely legitimate questions.  We've traditionally priced Symphony upgrades higher but this is something we need to reevaluate for the future. And, I promise to do just that.  We do have a separate developement and testing path for Symphony (it's a turnkey solution) and that adds to the upgrade price.  But that doesn't mean we shouldn't look at the pricing model and evaluate for future releases.  

    Dave

    Dave thanks for chiming in. 

    The bundled cost of the Symphony has never been openly broken down, so it is hard to know the margins for a product or how much work is involved adding the extra code to add the feature set of MC to Symphony. I can say I wasn't too pleased when I was forced into paying over the odds due to shipping costs when I could have sourced the CPU locally, incidentally the major componants on that sytem have had to be replaced by HP within 12 months...bad luck some might say.

    As Symphony has not been altered or had features added in a long time you could argue that It is now money for old rope. I think Avid needs to decide whether they are actually going to pump any efforts into developing  the Symphony toolset before appraising the pricing structure. It will be different for others, but It is pretty clear cut to me - I will not be re-investing in this product in it's current form.

  • Tue, Mar 8 2011 10:48 PM In reply to

    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    Let's get the facts straight first: it's 995 <-> 395, as the Symphony upgrade includes the 3rd party hardware and boxed software package. 149 is MC software-only, download-only, boxed MC (with 3rd party apps) is 395. So the difference is 600, not 800. So Symphony owners pay 250% rather than 660% for the upgrade. However, Symphony owners are obliged to get the Production Suite (even though just ONE product in the suite is of a new version).

    But: how is Symphony's turnkey solution more complicated to test than the exact same configuration (same CPU, same GPU, same RAM, same OS, same QT, same BOB) specified as tested and supported for Media Composer?

    How is the turnkey part of the equation of any relevance to the existing Symphony customers (already owning supported configurations) whom you have been systematically overcharging on every upgrade since 2007 so that they would keep the few extra features that Symphony holds over MC? Features that these customers have already paid for (often more than once), mind you.

    The current signal you are sending to Symphony owners is: do not upgrade. Doesn't make sense to me.

    But even more so, Dave, as I've written earlier, you need to do more than promise to reevaluate pricing structure. Pricing structure is mostly adding insult to injury. Avid has given nothing but signals that Symphony has been abandoned, safe for the extra income it may generate (for Avid) as a premium labeled product (with more expensive upgrades). Sure, once in a while, someone with an Avid badge will post here how much Avid is committed to Symphony. Has happened quite a bit since 2007.

    But the proof of the pudding is in the eating. And there has been absolutely no significant improvement to Symphony whatsoever, yet everytime you repeat the old trick of having Symphony owners pay more to get the same (or actually less, as some features are software-only, like Pro Tools hardware support, and therefore don't apply to SN, plus features like ScriptSync are not included as standard in SN).

    It's very simple: improve Symphony or kill it. I fully understand that limited resources lead to tough decisions on where to spend R&D money. I understand that you are limited in what you can promise or discuss in advance. But you need to step to the plate about the product. Avid has used up its credit with Symphony owners, period.

     

    Also see http://community.avid.com/forums/p/94058/537063.aspx

     

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Mar 8 2011 10:56 PM In reply to

    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    Very well put, Job - hits the nail square on the head. Dave, with all due respect, Symphony customers need to see actions to back up the words. The time for talking about the situation is over, and has been for a long time.

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Wed, Mar 9 2011 12:18 AM In reply to

    • Abeyta
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    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    completely agree Job. I would hope that Avid addresses this with some seriousness and not just peel off some marketing hoopla from the product page as an answer. "The worlds fastest finishing system" or whatever...

    I bought my Symphony in 2008 and have yet to see a new Symphony only feature developed. So when Avid charges more for each Symphony upgrade and it's assurance over MC it's just really insulting. I mean we already paid the premium for Symphony over MC in the purchase price. No need to keep sticking it to us.

    I will definitely not be upgrading to Symphony 5.5 this time. In my opinion it's not worth a penny more than the MC price.

    Mac Pro 2013 6 Core 3.5ghz, MC Symphony 8.7, 16GB RAM, D700, OS 10.10.5, Ultrastudio 4K, Pegasus2 R6 12TB [view my complete system specs]

     

    Derrick Abeyta | Blu Pixel

    Phoenix, Arizona

    www.blupixelpost.com

     

  • Wed, Mar 9 2011 5:59 PM In reply to

    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    Give me about a week to look into Symphony upgrade pricing.  I don't want to make it seem like somebody else is responsible for the pricing because I am the person who suggests the pricing for the product.  But sometimes things get overlooked or a mistake is made and I'm willing to revisit Symphony upgrades.  I can't make any promises for a change for 5.5, but let me take this back to the business review team and see what we can do. I can't talk about futures and Symphony features, but I can tell you that this is one of the most important topics being discussed at Avid right now. More on that topic at a later date, more on Symphony upgrades in about a week.

    Take care,

    Dave

    Larry Rubin:

    Very well put, Job - hits the nail square on the head. Dave, with all due respect, Symphony customers need to see actions to back up the words. The time for talking about the situation is over, and has been for a long time.

     

  • Mon, Mar 14 2011 12:36 PM In reply to

    • switthaus
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    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    Dave - 

    There is so much chatter happening on various forums about just merging the two products.  Are those conversations happening at Avid as well?

    sw

     

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

  • Mon, Mar 14 2011 2:36 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    You can be sure that any major conversations that occur out here happen at Avid also. Regarding Symphony, I have no problem paying more for it if they give me more features.

     

    It is only because Symphony has had no new features added in such a long time, that we are rebelling against the higher cost.

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

    Burbank, Ca

    www.alphadogs.tv

    www.digitalservicestation.com

    www.editorslounge.com

  • Tue, Mar 15 2011 2:21 AM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    Job ter Burg:
    Let's get the facts straight first: it's 995 <-> 395, as the Symphony upgrade includes the 3rd party hardware and boxed software package. 149 is MC software-only, download-only, boxed MC (with 3rd party apps) is 395. So the difference is 600, not 800. So Symphony owners pay 250% rather than 660% for the upgrade. However, Symphony owners are obliged to get the Production Suite (even though just ONE product in the suite is of a new version).

    Not meaning to hi-jack this thread, but since this thread minimally mentioned DS ...

    MC and Symphony have been getting a significant price break on Boris and other products in the 3rd party software for a long while now.  As a result, these effects showup more in DS conforms (pretty much requiring that we obtain them).  But DS customers have NEVER gotten a price break at all on Boris BCC or the other products.  In fact Boris is $500 more for DS than MC or Symphony.  Imagine how we feel ...

    Back to you Biff.

    Jef

     

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.11.0 but playing w 2018.12.6|OS 10.14.x - iMac 2017 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Tue, Mar 15 2011 3:04 AM In reply to

    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    jef:

    Not meaning to hi-jack this thread, but since this thread minimally mentioned DS ...

    MC and Symphony have been getting a significant price break on Boris and other products in the 3rd party software for a long while now.  As a result, these effects showup more in DS conforms (pretty much requiring that we obtain them).  But DS customers have NEVER gotten a price break at all on Boris BCC or the other products.  In fact Boris is $500 more for DS than MC or Symphony.  Imagine how we feel ..

    I think this is outside Avid's control, GenArts charge an extra $2000 for Saphire plug-ins on the DS, but it's still half the cost  of a License on a Smoke, Flint or Flame.

     

  • Tue, Mar 15 2011 3:48 AM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    Simon Coldrick:

    I think this is outside Avid's control, GenArts charge an extra $2000 for Saphire plug-ins on the DS, but it's still half the cost  of a License on a Smoke, Flint or Flame.

    Well, someone once said "Everything is negotiable."  Obviously Avid negotiated a deal with Boris to package BCC with MC and Symphony.  And Avid was offering some type of deal recently for GenArts Sapphire for DS.   Deals like this get made.

    From this, many different conclusions can be drawn, but this would be speculation ...

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.11.0 but playing w 2018.12.6|OS 10.14.x - iMac 2017 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Tue, Mar 15 2011 3:58 AM In reply to

    Re: price of upgrade to V5.5

    Dave Avid PM:

    Give me about a week to look into Symphony upgrade pricing.  I don't want to make it seem like somebody else is responsible for the pricing because I am the person who suggests the pricing for the product.  But sometimes things get overlooked or a mistake is made and I'm willing to revisit Symphony upgrades.  I can't make any promises for a change for 5.5, but let me take this back to the business review team and see what we can do. I can't talk about futures and Symphony features, but I can tell you that this is one of the most important topics being discussed at Avid right now. More on that topic at a later date, more on Symphony upgrades in about a week.

    Take care,

    Dave

    Any news Dave?

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