Latest post Tue, Feb 7 2006 12:36 PM by berga. 13 replies.
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  • Fri, Feb 3 2006 2:54 AM

    protools integraded in the avid timeline.

    Hey Avid when is Media Composer and Protools going to get along together? It is really time to have a seamless integration of Protools or Protools freatures within the Avid timeline. The audio capabilities are so weak in the Avid that its just sad that a company that owns Protools hasn't made up for this already.

    Ok, I bet your saying you will loose money if you do this "its all about the bottom line" well guess what if you made a fully seamless & integrated protools editor inside the avid upgrade I would ablsolutly shell out the extra cash (reasonalbly priced of cousre). this would save me from having another system dedicated for protools and all the import/export bs that we have to do now.

    So whats the deal Avid? is there someting coming in the future?

  • Fri, Feb 3 2006 4:49 AM In reply to

    • AK-Jake
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    Re: protools integraded in the avid timeline.

    I don't think this is realistic.  However, Avid bundling PT LE and the DV Toolkit with all its NLE software is a different story...  The days of charging $1000-$1300 for a series of plugins to integrate PT with Avid have long since passed.  When I say the "DV Toolkit," I'm not necessariliy referring to the 3rd-party plugins, as I have no problem paying for those.  But DigiTranslator and the other Digi plugs should be included in the box with XDV to Symphony Nitris.  If you need more, add the Digi hardware that works with PT LE to your system (you'd have to pay for it of course), and you should be in business. 

    This is something Avid really needs to address.  I gave up on better audio tools in the NLE, but better PT LE integration with Avid NLE's and a free copy of DigiTranslator should be in the box when you crack the seal.  I'm not alone on this idea.

    My $0.02.

    Avid Symphony Nitris 3.x (DNA), HP xw8400, 3TB Avid Media-Array; Avid Xpress Studio HD Complete 5.1.3, HP xw8000, dual-3.06 ghz Xeon's; 2 GB of RAM;... [view my complete system specs]

    When 900 years old YOU reach, look as good, YOU'LL not!!  Hmmm?

  • Fri, Feb 3 2006 5:54 AM In reply to

    Re: protools integraded in the avid timeline.

    I don't see why this would be unrealistic. When I talk about paying extra to have protools integration I don't mean just a plug-in. This should be a software package like lets say "Avid Adrenaline Studio" this package includes a timeline that has the audio side of it being a protools interface bundled with the protools hardware to make it run. This would now open up the door for us to do stereo and 5.1 by bussing out the channels to the faders and speakers we want along with being able to edit the sound in less then frame increments amongst other advantages protocols gives us. It’s a "complete" editing solution for the video editor.
  • Fri, Feb 3 2006 6:07 AM In reply to

    Re: protools integraded in the avid timeline.

    also the problem if they just bundle a "dv tool kit" is you wont have playback of your sequence unless you output a qt ref then compress to mpeg or if i remember correctly you can use dv25 and a mojo. but what if you are working 1:1 or in HD your not going to go through that waste of time of transcoding. Lastly you will only be able to go out to protools when your picture locked. if you want to make a change you have to jump programs. to do 1 edit or multiple ones would be a nightmare.

    full integration is the only productive way it will work.
  • Fri, Feb 3 2006 2:03 PM In reply to

    • brettsherman
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    Re: protools integraded in the avid timeline.

    I think it's unrealistic to have the computer processing both video and audio in realtime. However I do like your idea of complete integration. Maybe you could have an Audio Priority mode and a Video Priority mode. In Audio Priority mode it wouldn't attempt to apply Realtime Effects to the Video, but would save CPU power for audio processing. In Video Priority the reverse would be true. Then you'd have the option of rendering your audio to new files with the plug-ins applied.

    This is just pie in the sky. I don't think Avid is even thinking this way. I wouldn't hold my breath.

    It's the only thing that would get me to switch from Nuendo. Nuendo is a competitor for the full Pro Tools system without the need for the expensive hardware. It dwarfs Pro Tools LE. And right now, it's integration with Avid is just as extensive as Pro Tools LE.

     

    Xpress Pro, Mac Pro 8-core, 4 Gig RAM, 1 TB Internal, FW800 custom built trayless SATA drive unit, UAD-1e Audio Accelerator, Blackmagic Decklink HD Extreme... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Feb 3 2006 4:34 PM In reply to

    • AK-Jake
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    Re: protools integraded in the avid timeline.

    It's very safe to say that Avid's not thinking this way...there isn't even adequate integration with PT LE and Avid NLE's on certain systems as it is. 

    What you want is the audio capabilities in Avid that Sony offers in Vegas:  a full-featured NLE with a full-featured DAW in one program.  Sonic Foundry (the company that created Acid Pro, Vegas, Sound Forge, etc.) used to make Vegas Video and Vegas Audio.  Vegas Video was an NLE and Vegas Audio was a DAW, which never made it past 2.0.  For Vegas 4, they integrated the 2 apps together into one application and killed off Vegas Audio 2.0 (I still have a copy laying around somewhere), plus changed the name to just "Vegas."  It was an unprecedented move, from my perspective, but it only worked for one reason:  people just weren't using Vegas Audio like other DAW's, nor Vegas Video like other DAWS.  (Professionals were cutting on Avid, Consumers were cutting on Premiere, and Apple was still in the early stages of FCP and trying to draw users to its NLE.)  Same goes for audio, as most pros were cutting on Pro Tools, Logic, or other DAW's.  By merging the 2, Sonic Foundry (and now Sony) were able to create an all-in-one video/audio application that even the "little guy" could afford (and hopefully want), which would start to suck some of the industry-leading Premiere prosumer user-base over to Vegas.  It worked wonderfully for them.  So well, in fact, that Sony bought out all of Sonic Foundry's multi-media creation assets (Vegas, Acid, Sound Forge, etc.), and is doing very well with all of them to this day.  Heck, look at Acid Pro 6:  it's been announced, available in March, and has moved into the realm of a full-featured DAW with looping capabilities.  A far cry from 1.0 to 5.0 which was nothing more than a looping tool.

    Avid will never integrate Pro Tools into its NLE's.  The best I think we could ever hope for is better integration with Pro Tools, a free copy of DigiTranslator with every purchase, and maybe (*MAYBE*) some better audio tools integrated into the Avid interface.

    I don't agree with you in that this would be nice, but it'll never happen.  Ever.  (Now that I've said this, it probably will.)

    Avid Symphony Nitris 3.x (DNA), HP xw8400, 3TB Avid Media-Array; Avid Xpress Studio HD Complete 5.1.3, HP xw8000, dual-3.06 ghz Xeon's; 2 GB of RAM;... [view my complete system specs]

    When 900 years old YOU reach, look as good, YOU'LL not!!  Hmmm?

  • Fri, Feb 3 2006 4:46 PM In reply to

    • Adman
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    Re: protools integraded in the avid timeline.

    I prefer having two separate but powerful applications...Pro Tools for Audio and Xpress Pro for video...with the DV Toolkit interoperability. But I believe that the interaction will be improved. Suppose, for example, that you could have them both running simultaneously, and working from the same native files. Shift tab from one app to the other and get down to business. Now imagine being able to do that across the network. So that you have a Sound Engineer on Pro Tools working on a separate workstation, accessing the same files as the video editor in a different office/different workstation.

    If you want the "one program does all" approach, I believe that is Liquid turf. Avid was and is developed for a production based environment with specific users doing specific tasks. Personally, I don't expect an editor to be the best sound engineer and/or vice versa...nor do I expect a 3d animator or graphic designer or writer or set designer lol to be the best at each respective area of expertise. Hence, I prefer a production environment that allows specialized work.

    I believe Avid's acquisition of Liquid directly addresses this issue. One system for event videographers, another for a specialized production environment.

    My two cents.

    Mac Pro, 64GB Ram. 1TB SSD system drive, 250Gb SSD external (media) drive. QHD Ultra wide, thunderbolt LG monitor, MC 2019.12.1. Pro Tools 11 HD (Mbox... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Feb 3 2006 5:28 PM In reply to

    Re: protools integraded in the avid timeline.

    While it is true that some of what is being discussed here is the "all in one" program approach...I do agree that Avid needs to put in better audio tools into their programs.

    I've seen the waveform editor in FCP, and it destroys the current Avid one (which is nonexistent, IMO)....the FCP audio editor (not talking about Soundtrack or Logic...the built in FCP editor) could actually get down to sample...obviously, the Avid couldn't move past frames.

    Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 2.66Ghz 3 GB Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800 (2x1GB, 2x512MB;) XFX GeForce 8800GT 512MB 250 GB Seagate HD (System) 3x500 GB Western Digital... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Feb 3 2006 5:57 PM In reply to

    • AK-Jake
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    Re: protools integraded in the avid timeline.

    Well said, Robert.
    Avid Symphony Nitris 3.x (DNA), HP xw8400, 3TB Avid Media-Array; Avid Xpress Studio HD Complete 5.1.3, HP xw8000, dual-3.06 ghz Xeon's; 2 GB of RAM;... [view my complete system specs]

    When 900 years old YOU reach, look as good, YOU'LL not!!  Hmmm?

  • Sat, Feb 4 2006 2:42 AM In reply to

    Re: protools integraded in the avid timeline.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><table width="85%"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/exchange/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>Steeldestroyer wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4">While it is true that some of what is being discussed here is the "all
    in one" program approach...I do agree that Avid needs to put in better
    audio tools into their programs.<br>
    <br>
    I've seen the waveform editor in FCP, and it destroys the current Avid
    one (which is nonexistent, IMO)....the FCP audio editor (not talking
    about Soundtrack or Logic...the built in FCP editor) could actually get
    down to sample...obviously, the Avid couldn't move past frames.<br>
    <br></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

    exactly. We all agree that Avid needs to update the audio side. its been the same design since the ABVB days and all i am saying is a company that owns protools should be able to get better functionality into there video software.
  • Sun, Feb 5 2006 5:35 PM In reply to

    • Ivo
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    Re: protools integraded in the avid timeline.

    You just have to look to premiere pro and audition. They show it´s possible! With lot´s of real time effect without extra hardware. Even surround sound is possible, which can´t Protools LE. it works perfect for a good price.
    Avid Media Composer 2018.9 MacBook Pro [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Feb 6 2006 1:55 PM In reply to

    • brettsherman
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    Re: protools integraded in the avid timeline.

     Ivo wrote:
    You just have to look to premiere pro and audition. They show it´s possible! With lot´s of real time effect without extra hardware. Even surround sound is possible, which can´t Protools LE. it works perfect for a good price.

    I guess it depends on what you're looking for. Yes you can apply basic compression and EQ on maybe 8 channels with realtime. However, when I do audio mixes, I use processor intensive broadband noise reduction, up to 40 tracks (1 for each interview subject) each with EQ, plus group channels for 4 different stems (narration, interviews, ambient, and music) and high-end compression on the master buss. I don't expect that the Avid (or Premiere or Final Cut Pro) will ever be able to do this in realtime.

    Xpress Pro, Mac Pro 8-core, 4 Gig RAM, 1 TB Internal, FW800 custom built trayless SATA drive unit, UAD-1e Audio Accelerator, Blackmagic Decklink HD Extreme... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Feb 6 2006 4:09 PM In reply to

    Re: protools integraded in the avid timeline.

     brettsherman wrote:
    ...I don't expect that the Avid (or Premiere or Final Cut Pro) will ever be able to do this in realtime.


    Hmm, I wouldn't be so quick to use the words "will ever"...how many people have said the same about features within the very editing systems we use now?

    Of course, I think we can all agree that forty tracks in realtime in Avid in this current time is unrealistic...
    Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 2.66Ghz 3 GB Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800 (2x1GB, 2x512MB;) XFX GeForce 8800GT 512MB 250 GB Seagate HD (System) 3x500 GB Western Digital... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Feb 7 2006 12:36 PM In reply to

    • berga
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    Sv: protools integraded in the avid timeline.

    Today, Avid has two lines. One for people who want to do everything in their aplications, Liquid, and one for an industry approach which hard specialised software and lots of cooperation, read MCA, Symphony and Protools.

    I support better support for Protools at XPP such inclusion of DV toolkit or other support. I also hope Protools LE will support Mojo.

    I does not want more integration. If I need it, I can buy Liquid.

    I think it is better to made better cooperation support for XPP, MCA, Symphony and Protools such as some sort of simpler file sharing without systems which costs 20 times the editing software.
    HP xw4600, 3.2Mhz, 4Gb RAM, Mojo. 500GB SATA Bootdrive, 3x500GB internal raid-0 for video, Windows 7 Pro Swedish, MC7 with Symphony option, Blackmagic... [view my complete system specs]
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