Latest post Mon, Aug 30 2010 10:30 PM by Larry Rubin. 47 replies.
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  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 12:26 AM In reply to

    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    "... Sadly the z400 only has 2 drive bays. ..."

    True, it only has 2 x 3.5", but it also has 3 x 5.25", 1 of which is used for the CD\DVD, leaving 2 free.  Get a 5.25-3.5" adapter kit for $5.00 and add more drives.

    BTW, a really useful tool, if you're looking for HP specs, is the "HP Product Bulletin".  If you install it on a 64-bit system, be sure to set the installer for "Compatibility Mode".  Also, for maximum enjoyment of the tool, during the installation, be sure to choose "Pictures" as an option.

    Symphony 8.8.x w/Avid Nitris DX, HP z420, Windows 10, QT v7.7.x, Hexa Core 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM, nVidia Quadro Series 2000 w/353.82. 2TB Boot, 2 x 3TB internal... [view my complete system specs]

    "There are few technological barriers.  You can fix almost anything if you throw enough money at it."
    *******************************
    Randall L. Rike, ACI, ACSR Mac*Win*Unity*ISIS*DS
    Systems Engineer @ BET Networks [a Viacom company]
    (wwld)

  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 12:54 AM In reply to

    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    Avid did have an "entry level" software similar to MC.  it was called Xpress pro! :p

     

    but for those who want to play with video editing with off the shelf computers, they can use Pinacle Studio. 

    http://pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/Home+Video/Studio+Family/Studio+Ultimate+Collection+14.htm

    $129 for the ultimate edition, and has minimal system requirements, and for another $100 you can have an I/O device.

    That is the product Avid has for the consumers, and the consumer budget.

    Media Composer 8.2 Dongle+Symphony Option Win7x64 Pro HP zBook 15" Laptop - 16GB RAM (2nd System) Media Composer 8.2 Dongle+Symphony Option - HP z420... [view my complete system specs]

     The FunkyDragon 

    Happy Editing!

  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 1:48 AM In reply to

    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    Randall L Rike:

    "... I still believe that Avid needs to make a version of Composer that will run on the typical mid line computers ..."

    They're only going to write one set of code ....

    So, the question to Avid software engineers is ... can they create a version of the software that is powerful enough to do uncompressed 4:4:4 or with multplie streams of HD, and still be able to run on an entry-level system with ATI or G-Force graphics cards? ...

    Maybe not entry level, but mid to high-end, yes. As we all know, the monster computer of today becomes a high to mid-level machine in a year or two.

    As far as Quadro cards go. I had the opportunity to talk with someone from nVIDIA a few months ago. He stated that Quadro cards have certified drivers, guaranteed speeds and handle rendering fine detail better in some cases than GeForce cards do. But he also acknowledged that the latest GTX cards are more powerful than cards like the Quadro FX 3800, which is considerably more money.

    There will be a new Fermi line of Quadro cards coming out that will best the best of the GeForces. But as of right now, the Quadros are long in the tooth, b/c unlike the GeForce GTX cards, the current crop of Quadros are not Fermi cards.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 1:58 AM In reply to

    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    FunkyDragon:
    Avid did have an "entry level" software similar to MC.  it was called Xpress pro!

    Yes indeed, but my issue here is the cost of the hardware, not the cost of the Composer application which was a bargain. And I really don't want to step away Composer and go with Pinnacle Studio or Premier Pro or Vegas.

     

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 12:16 PM In reply to

    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    Larry Rubin:

    FunkyDragon:
    Avid did have an "entry level" software similar to MC.  it was called Xpress pro!

    Yes indeed, but my issue here is the cost of the hardware, not the cost of the Composer application which was a bargain. And I really don't want to step away Composer and go with Pinnacle Studio or Premier Pro or Vegas.

     

    So get an iMac.  there are cheaper, qualified computers than the z800/z400/mac Pro.

    Or build one yourself and use at your own risk.  the Quadro 580 is about $150, and is comparable in price to any gamer graphics card.

    Media Composer 8.2 Dongle+Symphony Option Win7x64 Pro HP zBook 15" Laptop - 16GB RAM (2nd System) Media Composer 8.2 Dongle+Symphony Option - HP z420... [view my complete system specs]

     The FunkyDragon 

    Happy Editing!

  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 12:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    It's more about Avid's strategy (or lack thereof) for selling to markets other than professional post. Someone shouldn't have to switch to Mac to buy a reasonably priced qualified computer. Nor should they have to buy a used HP or Dell and wipe the hd to install Win 7 64 (b/c most of the re-certified machines are XP or Vista).

    None of this would matter if Avid weren't losing money. But it is, and has been for quite awhile now. Maybe MC5 will change this, IDK.

    Avid needs to make it easy for people to get an Avid system up and running, otherwise they're going to continue to lose a lot of sales. The fact that someone as experienced as Larry finds the whole process frustrating speaks volumes.

    When Avid was printing money, they could say take it or leave it. Now they need to say something more like won't you please come back, oh and let me dust off the chair and bring you drink.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 1:17 PM In reply to

    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    It's more about Avid's strategy (or lack thereof) for selling to markets other than professional post. Someone shouldn't have to switch to Mac to buy a reasonably priced qualified computer.

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    Avid needs to make it easy for people to get an Avid system up and running, otherwise they're going to continue to lose a lot of sales.

    Absolutely right and these are the core points in my discussion. I have no desire at this time to switch to a Mac, nor do I have any intentions or the skills necessary to build my own computer. THESE STEPS SHOULD NOT BE NECESSARY. If Avid really wants to broaden it's marketing and customer base, they have to make it easier and less expensive for the user to acquire a supported system "off the shelf". If they don't, they can just complacently sit on their current system requirements and watch that market evaporate right in front of their eyes.

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 3:05 PM In reply to

    • videoguy
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Plainview, NY
    • Posts 481
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    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    Guys,

    We've been posting our DIY builds for years and each one has run the then current version of Avid. Our current DIY7 (Vista 64) and DIY 7.7 (win 7 64-bit) machines have been rock solid with MC4. So far all I have heard is great reports from folks who have upgrade to MC5 on one of these builds.

    We try and keep our DIY builds in the 2K range, although at times we have done artilces on low budget machines with a target of $1K. To hit that kind of budget you have to pick an off the shelf GPU and cut back on the RAM.

    Our next DIY build is scheduled for later this summer. I'm hoping to put a hex-core i7 in it, but that will depend on Intel delivering on the promise of a $500 street price. We're making sure the mobo we select will fully support the new hex-core CPUs. Right now I'm leaning towards the Asus P6X58D Premium and hopefully a i7-970. That will push the build closer to $2,500, but I think it's what we're going to have to do to benchmark the newest technology.

    Do I wish Avid would take the time and invest the resources to approve a wider range of hardware? YOU BET! We've been on them about this since XpressDV. But the reality is that if you take the time to do the research, you can build yourself a rock solid MC5 machine.  Or have your local computer guy follow our guidelines and build it for you.

    As for the GPU requirements being out of line or too much, I will leave you with this. Our #1 tech support solution for customers reporting unstable or sluggish MC editing is to get a QuadroFX card. Can you use a cheaper off the shelf GPU - yes. Will it work just as good as a QuadroFX - maybe. But then again, it may not. So if you intend to use your MC workstation to make money, why take the risk to save a few hundred bucks? The FX1800 card is under $500. It's not the greatest or most powerful card around, but it is ROCK solid for MC.

    Gary

    Media Composer 3.5 ASUS P6X58D-E w/ Intel i7 980 Hex-core, 24GB RAM, PNY Quadro4000, Win7, SATA Boot drive, G-Speed eS for video [view my complete system specs]

    Videoguys.com 800 323-2325 http://www.videoguys.com We are the Digital Video Editing & DVD Production Experts

  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 3:32 PM In reply to

    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    Gary:

    I just can't figure out if a quadro card like the FX 1800 is available for $500 and the quadro line of cards will continue to be manufactured and supported by NVIDIA, why you cannot find them on the shelves of various different computer stores. Can you shed some light on where NVIDIA is with quadro and what you see in the future for quadro?

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 4:02 PM In reply to

    • videoguy
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Plainview, NY
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    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    The Quadro availability is simply supply and demand.

    The graphics card industry is based on volume - mass volumes - and new revs every 6 months. Gaming drives the industry and at any time a new blockbuster game can change the entire playing field. So new cards and drivers and tweaks are a must. Retail profit margins on graphics cards are razor thin, dealers have to make it up on volume and back end promotions.

    The QuadroFX line is designed for stability. Not just from a technical 'stability' as an engineering term, but as a market. QuadroFX cards have a longer life cycle and the drivers are optimized for content creation (NLEs, photoshop, CAD, VFX, 3D animation etc.). These products have 12-18 month rev cycles and major revs like CS5 or MC5 often involve tons of coolaboration between nVidia, the QuadroFX team and the NLE vendors. This high investment in R&D and 3rd party partenrships serves a much smaller market, but one that is still very important.

    So that brings us back to retail. Retail shelf space is based on turns. QuadroFX cards simply do not generate enough volume to get them on store shelves. While prfit margins are better then typical GPUs, they are still much tighter then retailers like to work on. So combine low margins with low volumes and their isn't much incentive for your local computer dealer or superstorre to carry them.

    The bulk of the QuadroFX sales are integrated into a workstation. Either by a mass vendor like HP or smaller integrators, like your local Avid dealer. PNY sells packaged QuadroFX cards which are available at online dealers like Videoguys, B&H, Newegg etc. We try to keep a few of each model on hand, but at times we are out of stock for a week or two as availability dries up.

    I hope this little peak behind the curtain helps, although I do understand the frustration. QuadroFX cards are woth the extra bucks for serious Avid editors. It's a winning combination.

    Gary

     

    Media Composer 3.5 ASUS P6X58D-E w/ Intel i7 980 Hex-core, 24GB RAM, PNY Quadro4000, Win7, SATA Boot drive, G-Speed eS for video [view my complete system specs]

    Videoguys.com 800 323-2325 http://www.videoguys.com We are the Digital Video Editing & DVD Production Experts

  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 6:48 PM In reply to

    • Brickwad
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Simsbury, CT
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    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    Someone shouldn't have to switch to Mac to buy a reasonably priced qualified computer.

    Never thought the day would come when anyone would utter those words . .

    1 MC4 Nitris DX on 12 core 2.66 mac pro 6 Gigs of Ram, 2 Symphony Nitris DX on eight core mac pro with 12 gig ram, 3 MC7 on Mac Pro, IMAC, and Macbook... [view my complete system specs]

    WWLD?

  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 6:58 PM In reply to

    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    OK Gary, thanks for the clarification. So do you think that the quadro card's future is secure as far as NVIDIA is concerned, dispite the significantly lower volume of sales?

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 7:18 PM In reply to

    • videoguy
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Plainview, NY
    • Posts 481
    • Points 6,680

    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    nVidia is strongly committed to the QuadroFX line. The premium they get for these goes towards engineering and  keeps them on top.

    The current FX(x)800 series is probably going to be replaced by an FX(x)900 series based on the newest fermi technology. I don't expect that to happen until year end or early 2011. And then add on a few months before Avid approves the new series of QuadroFX cards.

    http://www.nvidia.com/object/fermi_architecture.html

    Even whena new QuadroFX series does get released, nVidia keeps supporting and selling the previous family of QuadroFX cards for a year or longer. This goes back to my market stability point in my last post. They know these cards are designed into workstations and part of solutions that can have long lead times and project roll outs.

    Gary

     

     

    Media Composer 3.5 ASUS P6X58D-E w/ Intel i7 980 Hex-core, 24GB RAM, PNY Quadro4000, Win7, SATA Boot drive, G-Speed eS for video [view my complete system specs]

    Videoguys.com 800 323-2325 http://www.videoguys.com We are the Digital Video Editing & DVD Production Experts

  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 7:54 PM In reply to

    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    "... dispite the significantly lower volume of sales? ..."

    Sales where?  In retail stores?  HP and others sell a zillion of these as part of systems they sell from their online stores.

    Symphony 8.8.x w/Avid Nitris DX, HP z420, Windows 10, QT v7.7.x, Hexa Core 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM, nVidia Quadro Series 2000 w/353.82. 2TB Boot, 2 x 3TB internal... [view my complete system specs]

    "There are few technological barriers.  You can fix almost anything if you throw enough money at it."
    *******************************
    Randall L. Rike, ACI, ACSR Mac*Win*Unity*ISIS*DS
    Systems Engineer @ BET Networks [a Viacom company]
    (wwld)

  • Tue, Jul 13 2010 8:04 PM In reply to

    • videoguy
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Plainview, NY
    • Posts 481
    • Points 6,680

    Re: Bringing Composer into the Real World of the 21st Century

    Randall L Rike:

    "... dispite the significantly lower volume of sales? ..."

    Sales where?  In retail stores?  HP and others sell a zillion of these as part of systems they sell from their online stores.

    Yes, we're talking about boxed product at retail. As I said the majority of QuadroFX sales are integrated into systems. HP being the biggest by far. and yes, they sell tons of them.

     

    Media Composer 3.5 ASUS P6X58D-E w/ Intel i7 980 Hex-core, 24GB RAM, PNY Quadro4000, Win7, SATA Boot drive, G-Speed eS for video [view my complete system specs]

    Videoguys.com 800 323-2325 http://www.videoguys.com We are the Digital Video Editing & DVD Production Experts

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