Latest post Wed, May 5 2010 9:12 AM by tonyjover. 12 replies.
Page 1 of 1 (13 items)
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Wed, Apr 7 2010 7:38 PM

    A different DS wish list - Suggestions for Avid

    Looking outside the subject of specific features requiring R&D, which is already covered somewhat, I've compiled a short sketch for a list of specific actions Avid can take to put DS back in the picture. Obviously none of these will do much without a parallel development effort, but for this exercise let's just assume they have the will and resources for that part.

    This is meant as a proactive discussion thread. I really do believe DS can be cool again, but the forces within Avid who would rather see it dead are strong. If they only had somewhere sideways to emigrate us to, we would be the next Liquid. But for now, DS, and us who knows it, are their problem. So lets (again) try helping them with solutions.

    This is so far a short list;  add to it or comment on the entries. Discussions on the usefulness of it can go in 'that other thread'. Eventually we could make this into a poll for the most relevant ones. This is my list so far:


    1. Teach DS to all relevant Avid employees so that they fully understand the capabilities of the system

    2. Hire a great DS evangelist

    3. Let this evangelist do live streamed presentations of all new features at opening day of every NAB/IBC

    4. Create an official extensive series of DS tutorials & online courses

    5. Promote and sell DS Soft outside of registered owners (currently only available to owners of DS Dual-link)

    6. Give all Avid MC owners access to DS Soft at a reduced price

    7. Let all registered owners on support sign up for the DS beta program.

    8. Post the DS development database as a googledoc under NDA

    9. Let the developers and marketeers engage with the users directly in free discussions

    10. Make official user polls for specific new features

    11. Rename and rebrand the DS*


    - Play ball.

    K

  • Wed, Apr 7 2010 7:57 PM In reply to

    • GusC
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Burbank, CA
    • Posts 531
    • Points 6,565

    Re: A different DS wish list - Suggestions for Avid

    Some nice ideas!  My .02 cents in context:

    Intoxicator:
    2. Hire a great DS evangelist

    -Hopefully this person would be an actual dyed-in-the-wool DS User with street cred.  But most importantly, give them the resources they need.

    Intoxicator:
    4. Create an official extensive series of DS tutorials & online courses

    -Autodesk has amazing online tutorials that are worthy if being emulated.

    Intoxicator:
    5. Promote and sell DS Soft outside of registered owners (currently only available to owners of DS Dual-link)

    -Why not bundle it with every Symphony purchase?

    Intoxicator:
    7. Let all registered owners on support sign up for the DS beta program.

    -This I would say is the one idea that would not be practical.  Being a beta site is not necessarily a bonus.  Beta software can be problematic, and is technically not intended for daily, real-world use.  Plus, I imagine the logistics of that would be overwhelming.  I can hear Sylvain hyper-ventilating now....

    Intoxicator:
    9. Let the developers and marketeers engage with the users directly in free discussions

    -They already do.  At least on the developer side.  Steve McNeill, Jean-Marc, Sylvain and many others are constantly participating in Google-List discussions.  Marketing is apparently more interested in awards shows and their 12,458th feature film offline story...

    Intoxicator:
    10. Make official user polls for specific new features

    -Unfortunately polls mean nothing.  Just because people vote for a feature doesn't mean it's feasible from a development standpoint.  A 3D environment and a darker int

    Intoxicator:

    11. Rename and rebrand the DS*

    erface have been the top requests for how many years?

    -Please no more renaming!  Avid always gets it wrong!  DS Nitris, Symphony Nitris, Nitris DX. Personally I'd like them to do Avid Offline (Media Composer w/Symphony CC) and Avid Finish (DS).  But that ain't gonna happen...

    It's great to see some solutions being bantered around!

  • Wed, Apr 7 2010 10:15 PM In reply to

    • dermot
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Vancouver, Canada
    • Posts 524
    • Points 6,220

    Re: A different DS wish list - Suggestions for Avid

    Intoxicator:
    - Play ball.

    man you're on a roll... i love reading your idea's...

    Intoxicator:
    1. Teach DS to all relevant Avid employees so that they fully understand the capabilities of the system

    Oh yea, first place to start.. there's an amazing amount of comments on the MC lists  that DS already addreses, and the Mod's of the MC forums do not seem to be aware of it, so some basic education is truly needed...

    Intoxicator:
    2. Hire a great DS evangelist

    Like Lucas was in the days of the LA wrecking crew... that person is needed, and needs to keep their chops up at time goes by.

    Intoxicator:
    3. Let this evangelist do live streamed presentations of all new features at opening day of every NAB/IBC

    A great idea, one used by several of DS's competitiors.. even one that pitches it to the Avid LinkedIn group, the same group that Avid choses to ignore...

    Intoxicator:

    5. Promote and sell DS Soft outside of registered owners (currently only available to owners of DS Dual-link)

    Again much needed entry point.

    Intoxicator:
    6. Give all Avid MC owners access to DS Soft at a reduced price

    I never would have thought of this one, but what a stunning marketing move that would be, they would never go back to the AE shuffle once they had an idea what they have in their hands

    Intoxicator:

    7. Let all registered owners on support sign up for the DS beta program.

    I'm with Gus on this one...

    Intoxicator:
    8. Post the DS development database as a googledoc under NDA

    Great idea. anything that gets the users closer to the dev's is good, and some updates given NDA's should be possiable

    Intoxicator:

    9. Let the developers and marketeers engage with the users directly in free discussions

    Another thing that is so badly needed, communication...

    Intoxicator:
    10. Make official user polls for specific new features

    Another great idea, all about communcation, in both directions

    Intoxicator:
    11. Rename and rebrand the DS*

    I'm with Gus again, keep DS, and re-brand MC/offline & DS/finishing

    Thanks for the positive focus, i'm impressed

    d.

     

    8600 - 3700 - AJA 2Ke - u320 array - Dream Color [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Apr 7 2010 11:27 PM In reply to

    Re: A different DS wish list - Suggestions for Avid

    * In answer to the rebranding comments: Remember that this is a process, not just a result. Most often a rebranding process doesn't actually change the name, but it may add something, and certainly changes something. It should always be done carefully. Renaming MC as "Offline" I take as a joke - talk about alienating markets, 90% of all MC's are used for online work these days.

     

    Also posted to the DS-L:

    In the specific case of DS, I would say this: Rebranding DS as an "Avid" absolutely did hurt image, sales and brand product value, massively - And for specific reasons.

    Because "Media Composer" was always sort of an awkward product brand name, and the name for MC originally was "Avid 1", the perceived name in the market became an "Avid".  And everybody in that market knew that the name Avid did NOT represent high-end finishing. "An Avid" was an offline editorial tool. So calling DS an "Avid" effectively pulled DS out of the finishing segment in many markets.

    The company known as Avid is currently in the middle of a large rebranding process. It's my impression they're handling branding issues slightly more professionally this time around. They just announced that they are killing the DigiDesign brand name, and phasing M-Audio over to a purely product brand name.

    I think it would be a good idea to look at the product named "DS" while in this process. Why?

    "DS" in itself is not a strong product brand, it's just two letters. The letters don't even mean anything, officially (unlike Nintendo's DS, aka "Dual Screen"). While DS worked fine as a product name under the Softimage brand, the two letters alone has never been enough to distance the perception of DS from Avid's other editing tools in any market,  least of all internally in the organization. Rebranding DS would also give Avid an opportunity to renew their engagement with the DS community, and it would give the marketing department a new set of tools.

    But as I stated, none of this would work if the hard R&D work is not done also. You cannot rebrand or reinvent DS "as is". But with a new set of features, streamlined workflows, a more modern GUI, the product known only as DS could also deserve a brand new name.

  • Thu, Apr 8 2010 12:05 AM In reply to

    Re: A different DS wish list - Suggestions for Avid

    Gus,

    -Please no more renaming!  Avid always gets it wrong!  DS Nitris, Symphony Nitris, Nitris DX. Personally I'd like them to do Avid Offline (Media Composer w/Symphony CC) and Avid Finish (DS).  But that ain't gonna happen...

    Lets not limit DS right out of the gate if you are going to rebrand it.  80% of the editing that I do on DS is considered by the majority of the film industry as "offlining".  18% is purely compositing projects and 2% of the time I work as a finishing editor.  But I know you are just throwing out an idea.

    I for one would be completely on board with a rebranding effort from Avid for DS.  I feel like DS has had an identity within the onlining community, but it lacks an identity with producers.  It has an identity with offline editors, but its usually not a positive one.

    Great list Knut.  Im not going to break down each one of your ideas,but i for one would love to see more tutorials placed on Avid's site.  Every time I start to learn a new piece of software I learn infinitely more off of visual demonstration than i do from reading a manual.  For me, manuals are reference items and nothing else.  Video tutorials - even for tricks I already know - teach me different ways to use the system just based on user techniques.  I spent a few hours going through the Imagineer tutorials for Mokey last week and learned a lot of new techniques for Mocha simply based on watching the way Ross worked with the software.

    -Brian

  • Thu, Apr 8 2010 7:13 AM In reply to

    Re: A different DS wish list - Suggestions for Avid

    Diferentiating products by "offline" and "online" monikers is meaningless for a number of reasons. One is that the line between the two is more and more blurred with each day. Another one is that the etymology of the terms goes too far back. The online refers to a concept of gear referenced to a common sync source and fed to a switcher genlocked to the same house sync. Offline is everything else that's not online. These are ancient concepts and as much as I feel warm and fuzzy about the subcarrier frequency and color framing--they are uncool.

    It'e been said many times that Avid must merge Media Composer and Symphony products into one. It's up to the customers to decide if they will use the product for creative editorial or for finishing.  Just don't call it offline/online.

    Igor Ridanovic

    www.HDhead.com

  • Thu, Apr 8 2010 2:42 PM In reply to

    • dmax
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Jun 4 2009
    • Dublin, Ireland
    • Posts 29
    • Points 355

    Re: A different DS wish list - Suggestions for Avid

    Great list Knut.

     

    1. Teach DS to all relevant Avid employees so that they fully understand the capabilities of the system.

    - Absolutely. How can you sell or promote a product you hardly know. And as someone mentioned, DS solves many problems MCers are having. A mod on the MC lists would beable to greatly service people by pointing them to other Avid (DS) solutions to their issues.

    2. Hire a great DS evangelist

     

    - Yep. Like Lucas is to Assimilate and Ross to Mocha. It is easy to see how an individual can make a big impact on sales and customer satisfaction.

     

    3. Let this evangelist do live streamed presentations of all new features at opening day of every NAB/IBC

     

    - Again Yes. PLUS. I'd like to see them travel and spread to word throughout the world, not just LA or the US.

     

    4. Create an official extensive series of DS tutorials & online courses

     

    - Yep. With an overal structure (ie one tutorial leads to the next and so on). Hands on, guided learning really locks in that knowledge.

     

    5. Promote and sell DS Soft outside of registered owners (currently only available to owners of DS Dual-link)

    6. Give all Avid MC owners access to DS Soft at a reduced price

     

    - Yes and yes.

     

    7. Let all registered owners on support sign up for the DS beta program.

     

    - I agree with others that Beta needs to be limited as it would stress teh support resources as too many people would be needing support to fix issues not fully established. There are still inevitably issues on released version so I'd say continue to limit the beta. Possibley increase it's size...

     

    8. Post the DS development database as a googledoc under NDA

     

    - Yes. Communication is perhaps Avid's worse sin. Although, there's many to choose from.

     

    9. Let the developers and marketeers engage with the users directly in free discussions

     

    Yes, yes, yes. Like in the old days (I've heard stories, legends of developers and customers working together to make a better product). Isn't thjat how Softimage DS started. By talking to Editors and working out what they needed. And then, whallop!! What a system. Get that momentum back.

     

    10. Make official user polls for specific new features

     

    Yep. But I don't always agree with everyone else  ;-)

     

    11. Rename and rebrand the DS*

     

    I'm for this as long as it''s well done. But it would be low on my priorities.

     

    We need more numbers in development to speed up the growth of the product. The guys we have a genius's, great to deal with and truely dedicated. They listen to teh users, something the senior management at Avid seem not to do. This communication between Avid seniors, people in the position to make decisions and assume responsibility forthe DS's direction and the DS users is non existant. There's no accountability.

  • Thu, Apr 8 2010 5:18 PM In reply to

    • tonyjover
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Birmingham UK
    • Posts 390
    • Points 4,590
    • Moderator: Avid DS

    Re: A different DS wish list - Suggestions for Avid

    dmax:
    (I've heard stories, legends of developers and customers working together to make a better product). Isn't thjat how Softimage DS started.

    It's so far back in the mists of time it has indeed taken on legendary status... but young man, I tell you it's true Wink

    You know keyboard-led manual kerning?  I was sat in Montreal next to Andrew Satinoff as he was explaining how he thought it should work to a developer one morning.  When we came back from lunch the developer popped his head round the door and said "Try that kerning feature, I've dropped a new dll in".  Now THAT'S what I call interaction!

    Tony

    Filed under:
  • Fri, Apr 30 2010 11:39 PM In reply to

    Re: A different DS wish list - Suggestions for Avid

    This is a good thread to bump now.

    K

  • Sun, May 2 2010 2:11 PM In reply to

    • tonyjover
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Birmingham UK
    • Posts 390
    • Points 4,590
    • Moderator: Avid DS

    Re: A different DS wish list - Suggestions for Avid

    Agreed.  Adam, Vincent, Marianna - any of you like to comment?

    As regards rebranding - if Corel don't want the name any more could we have Digital Studio back?  It's ever so descriptive.

    Tony

  • Sun, May 2 2010 4:50 PM In reply to

    • dltarr
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Indianapolis
    • Posts 123
    • Points 1,490

    Re: A different DS wish list - Suggestions for Avid

    tonyjover:

    Corel don't want the name any more could we have Digital Studio back?  It's ever so descriptive.

    Of course, Corel's version of Digital Studio runs on Windows 7 and handles AVCHD formats - All for $60.  ;-)

  • Mon, May 3 2010 1:36 PM In reply to

    • tonyjover
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Birmingham UK
    • Posts 390
    • Points 4,590
    • Moderator: Avid DS

    Re: A different DS wish list - Suggestions for Avid

    Voilá  Bundle it with DS Wink

  • Wed, May 5 2010 9:12 AM In reply to

    • tonyjover
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Birmingham UK
    • Posts 390
    • Points 4,590
    • Moderator: Avid DS

    Re: A different DS wish list - Suggestions for Avid

    Once again, this is a thread that would benefit from a response from Avid, even if it's to say "Sorry, we ain't going to do that".  Speculation is energy-sapping and pointless.

    Tony

Page 1 of 1 (13 items)

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller