Latest post Thu, Jan 28 2010 4:26 PM by Job ter Burg. 20 replies.
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  • Wed, Jul 15 2009 1:37 PM

    • Frevan
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    avid and students in europe

    Hi,

    we are currently looking for new editors for our ENG-department. What we notice is that a lot of students don't know avid anymore. They all have FCP instead of avid. Is there a strategy to turn this around? They all say that Avid is way to expensive to buy as a student and FCP is a lot cheaper in hardware and software.

    When they start with us they all get a basic avid training from our superusers and we can quickly change them around to Avid, but i would be way easier if they had more feeling for Avid instead of FCP.

    Well, if they have feeling with both programms i'm even happier.

    12 hp workstations XW8200, 18 airspeeds, 4 transfermanagers, 1 unity isis. [view my complete system specs]

    Deadline is everything, 5 times a day. ENG

  • Wed, Jul 15 2009 1:49 PM In reply to

    Re: avid and students in europe

    Frevan:
    They all say that Avid is way to expensive to buy as a student

    Students can get MC for under 300 EUR.

    Also, tell their schools how you feel about it.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Jul 15 2009 1:58 PM In reply to

    • Frevan
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    Re: avid and students in europe

    we've told them that. We told them also that a lot of production firms use avid and that it's really necessary that they can work with avid. But i get the feeling that fcp is a lot (how would i say it) cooler and u use a mac.

    12 hp workstations XW8200, 18 airspeeds, 4 transfermanagers, 1 unity isis. [view my complete system specs]

    Deadline is everything, 5 times a day. ENG

  • Wed, Jul 15 2009 2:03 PM In reply to

    • BLKDOG
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    Re: avid and students in europe

    Also remember that it's not any one particular NLE that a student needs to learn but, rather, the craft of editing. I always say that I learned to edit on film and, later, 3/4 to 3/4 cuts only. My first employer had major tape to tape editing rooms and I built on my limited knowledge over time in that facility.

    It's kind of the same with FCP and Avid. IF student want to learn on FCP then they learn the craft of editing but that is no guarantee that their employers will not want them to learn something new in the real world.

    Project Manager, Avid Professional Services - Americas [view my complete system specs]

    In agreement, Unity. In Disagreement, Discussion. In all things, Charity.


  • Wed, Jul 15 2009 2:48 PM In reply to

    • Frevan
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    Re: avid and students in europe

    Blkdog, i also learned my video-skills on a tape to tape facility. I learned avid on a mac in the early days and then kept my interests alive on it. But now i get the feeling that avid is (excuse me the expression) not sexy enough for the young editors. Hmm

    12 hp workstations XW8200, 18 airspeeds, 4 transfermanagers, 1 unity isis. [view my complete system specs]

    Deadline is everything, 5 times a day. ENG

  • Wed, Jul 15 2009 2:54 PM In reply to

    • BLKDOG
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      Moderator: MCA PC

    Re: avid and students in europe

    Fortunately for me then, I drive the business and not the young editors. They learn what I want them to learn or I hire the next one in line.

    Project Manager, Avid Professional Services - Americas [view my complete system specs]

    In agreement, Unity. In Disagreement, Discussion. In all things, Charity.


  • Wed, Jul 15 2009 3:00 PM In reply to

    • Frevan
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    Re: avid and students in europe

    It's just an impression that i get that's all. And hiring an avid-editor isn't as easy here. But that's another discussion.

    12 hp workstations XW8200, 18 airspeeds, 4 transfermanagers, 1 unity isis. [view my complete system specs]

    Deadline is everything, 5 times a day. ENG

  • Wed, Jul 15 2009 5:42 PM In reply to

    • switthaus
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    Re: avid and students in europe

    Your impression is correct.  I have a bit of unique view as I have my own editorial shop with both FCP and Avid, I cut at a variety of post houses in the region, and I teach at a grad school for advertising students.  It's an interesting dynamic in schools these days as some of my students have experience with FCP before they get to my classes, but none with any Avid experience.

    Avid has a couple challenges when attracting young editors.  First, it's not just Final Cut that Avid is competing with. It's the Apple/iPod/iPhone/iTunes culture that has been brilliantly marketed by Apple.  Apple is cool, thereby making FCP cool.  Second,  even though an educational Avid seat is cheaper than and FCS seat, the total package by apple is seen as a better deal overall.   

    Avid needs to do a far better job marketing to the young editor that Avid still is the professionals choice, and to the institutions that Avid is a helluva deal.  They need to be at these schools in person as much as possible.  Avid is certainly behind with this group of folks, and face a more daunting challenge of trying to change behavior rather than set the behavior in the first place.

    When I was offered the job to teach at the VCU Brandcenter, we had 15 Final Cut suites.  Now, thanks to assistance from Marianna and other fine folks at Avid, we still have 15 FCP suites but now offer 5 Media Composer Soft suites, with one being more of a "real life" suite, rather than a computer in a lab environment.  Not equal, but a start.

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

  • Thu, Jul 16 2009 8:39 AM In reply to

    • Frevan
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    Re: avid and students in europe

    If avid had a total package that would change a lot too. Now, if you want avid on pc you have to buy a hp workstation or a dell workstation or on laptop, a stiff hp laptop. Why would you do that if you can buy a sexy macbook pro or a G5 with FCP. The looks make it also.

    12 hp workstations XW8200, 18 airspeeds, 4 transfermanagers, 1 unity isis. [view my complete system specs]

    Deadline is everything, 5 times a day. ENG

  • Thu, Jul 16 2009 10:21 AM In reply to

    Re: avid and students in europe

    Frevan:
    Why would you do that if you can buy a sexy macbook pro or a G5 with FCP

    Why would you not get Avid on that MacBook Pro?

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jul 16 2009 7:04 PM In reply to

    • NICKB
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    Re: avid and students in europe

    What i do not understand with students is why are they not looking at the job market if the job market is demanding certain skills then that is what the student should be learning.

    If the local job market will pay money to Avid editors then the clever student will be learning Avid while the competition learns something else.

  • Thu, Jul 16 2009 7:31 PM In reply to

    • switthaus
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    Re: avid and students in europe

    NICKB:

    What i do not understand with students is why are they not looking at the job market if the job market is demanding certain skills then that is what the student should be learning.

     

    As BLKDOG mentioned earlier, the best thing is to learn the craft of editing, no matter what the platform.   Plus, outside of some specific markets, there are plenty of opportunities for FCP editors out there these days, in contrast to years ago when Avid had a stranglehold on the market.  For example, the agency I am editing for this week and next has in in-house post facility.  One Flame, two AE suites, one Avid/FCS suite and four Final Cuts....the math explains it pretty clearly on where the better opportunity lies for freelance....

     

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

  • Thu, Jul 23 2009 9:06 AM In reply to

    • Frevan
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    • Points 190

    Re: avid and students in europe

    Maybe avid can present a full package, i mean hard and software for a comfortable price. That would surely open doors. They can even try it with mac and avid soft. Who knows, it's up to avid.

    12 hp workstations XW8200, 18 airspeeds, 4 transfermanagers, 1 unity isis. [view my complete system specs]

    Deadline is everything, 5 times a day. ENG

  • Mon, Jul 27 2009 8:04 AM In reply to

    • DylanReeve
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    • Auckland, New Zealand
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    • Moderator: MCA Mac
      Moderator: MCA PC

    Re: avid and students in europe

    There is perhaps another consideration too? FCP is a lot easier to pirate. If you own a Mac then a few minutes searching around online will net you a usable copy of the latest version of FCP. And it's easy to learn - generally an easier learning curve than Avid.

    When I went to film school a lot of the students I was there with had Macs with cracked FCP installed on them. They'd been playing with it before they started at the school. Then they were taught Avid, so had both skills.

    I spoke to an Adobe exec in this country once who was very honest about it - Adobe sort of counts on individuals, especially students, pirating their apps. It provides them with a userbase who will actually drive purchase in businesses. They don't want to see businesses running with pirated apps, obviously, but some kid at home learning Photoshop on his PC is going to help them in the longrun. It means that everyone who wants to do photo-anything will know how to do with with Photoshop and will buy it themselves later, or convince others to buy it for them to use in their job.

    I learned most of what I know about Photoshop with a cracked version when I was about 15. I've been directly responsible for the purchase of at least 8 licenses since. If I hadn't had that, then maybe I'd have learned Corel Photopaint, or the Gimp?

    Various systems - including HP Z440 and Z840 workstations Media Composer 2018 [view my complete system specs]

    Dylan Reeve - Edit Geek // Online/Offline Editor // Post Production Supervisor
    Auckland, New Zealand

     

  • Mon, Jul 27 2009 11:51 AM In reply to

    Re: avid and students in europe

    Dylan, do you have any idea how many cracked PC versions of Avid are out there?

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
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