Latest post Thu, Aug 6 2009 7:46 PM by Jeroen van Eekeres. 58 replies.
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  • Fri, Mar 20 2009 10:25 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    THe thing you love about Avid, the Media Management, would have to be turned into FCP style media management to accomplish what you are asking for.

     

    Right now, FCP links to files by file name and path. that is why moving a file or renaming creates a relinking issue. But you can link to any file anywhere. Just like After Effects.

     

    Avid creates a new file with all the metadata of project name, source, TC, etc. and places that in an exact folder with a database that tracks it carefully. You can take that media file to another Avid across town and use the media tool to get back the master clip with all the data. This is what makes the media management work so well. However, it doesn't lend itself to allowing you to just throw anything into the project. There is no way to ad the metadata to a file that way.

     

    The other benefit is that Avid forces it into a codec that will play in RT in Media Composer. Final Cut will only play the codec that matches the timeline settings. So mix and match sounds cool, but you pay the price when you want to output.

     

    6 of one, half a dozen of the other...

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  • Fri, Mar 20 2009 10:32 PM In reply to

    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    AndrewAction:

    Shirley Gutierrez:
    but I have to ask: once you convert those sequences to QT movies, how long does it take you to bring them in?
    You do not convert them to QT's you import the sequential graphics ( a settigs checkbox in the import tool) and it is quicker than real time even in full HD highest res.  (I use this a lot for timelapse sequences from stills cameras)

     

    Nothing flash in this example.

    A 180 graphic timeline, 20 minutes long (all graphics the same duration) all with BCC P&Z resize or move on them took 3 hours to make and 15 minutes to render a mixdown ready for DVD output.

    Sorry, I'm just a bit confused here. Is this something you did on an Avid system? Sort of sounds like the Avid import tool, since I use that checkbox to import stills sequences all the time, but then, I've never done sequential stills in FCP. In the original example, I believe Terry C. was complaining about how poorly FCP handled native import of TIFF sequences, and said the answer was to convert them to QTs with Quicktime Pro. Do you have a different experience?

     

  • Fri, Mar 20 2009 10:40 PM In reply to

    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    Shirley Gutierrez:
    Is this something you did on an Avid system?
    Always Avid.

  • Fri, Mar 20 2009 10:57 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    Kirk Arnold:

    How is Avid faring in this tough economy?  Will we see more contraction/consolidation?  Do you see the product line staying the same for the foreseeable future?

    Hi all, I've been following this thread closely and appreciate the great feedback everyone has submitted to date. I just feel compelled to ask at this point that for the sake of Kirk being able to respond, we keep this thread as focused on her original theme as possible.

    There's some good tangential topics going on here that might be good content for a new thread outside the "Chat with Kirk" forum. Thanks in advance.

    Adam

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

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  • Fri, Mar 20 2009 11:05 PM In reply to

    • bucur.marian
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    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    I don't understand why in this though economy Avid is rasing prices in Europe. There is no way that customers will understand that.

    Whatever the customer has :) [view my complete system specs]

    ACSR Elite

  • Sat, Mar 21 2009 1:04 AM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
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    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    So, some thoughts - on track, I hope.....

    1. AMA is a killer feature - expand upon it to include native QT support/import.

    2. Add full Symphony CC feature set to MC and improve both of them to have better secondaries.

    3. Make Digidesign gear totally transparent with MC so that you can use all M-Audio and/or Digidesign hardware with MC.

    4. Allow MC to work with BMD, AJA cards.

    5. Allow other apps to work with Mojo, Mojo DX, Nitris DX - including FCP and Premiere Pro.

    6. Revisit pricing adjustments.

    7. Forge deeper ties into the educational market.

    8. Add high-precision transcription functions to ScriptSync.

    9. Add ways to deal with large-res media inside MC in their native sizes, other than through Avid FX.

    10. Develop simple, low-cost, 5-20 user shared storage solution. Volume-level sharing is OK.

    11. Forget Interplay in MC. Most of your user base could care less. It has value for a small percentage of users.

    12. Add sub-frame audio editing capabilities in MC.

    13. Improve/replace MC effects model. Same for titling options.

    14. Increase product evangelism.

    15. Increase roles in film festivals and other visible events for target demographics.

    16. Bring back Avid Free DV (or some form of it) as a free MXF/OMF media player in addition to training aid.

    17. Develop a new server-based news system to replace Newscutter/Unity/Interplay. Look at Quantel's sQ news system and develop an Avid solution based on this approach. This would make a more cohesive, more responsive system for news operations.

    - Oliver

     

  • Sat, Mar 21 2009 1:37 AM In reply to

    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    Bravissimo, Oliver! Numbers 1 (see previous post), 2, 11 (or at least make Interplay smarter about project data), 12, and 17 are particularly close to my heart. 

    And Adam, these topics are not "tangential." They are all about key product features and how Avid stacks up against its main competition. Yes, the responses are detailed, but they need to be, because these details are the reason that Avid has lost so much market share. Kirk may not have to respond to every post, but someone at Avid has to hear all of it, or I can assure you the sun will set on this NLE.

    Thanks in advance.

     

    OliverPeters:

    So, some thoughts - on track, I hope.....

    1. AMA is a killer feature - expand upon it to include native QT support/import.

    2. Add full Symphony CC feature set to MC and improve both of them to have better secondaries.

    3. Make Digidesign gear totally transparent with MC so that you can use all M-Audio and/or Digidesign hardware with MC.

    4. Allow MC to work with BMD, AJA cards.

    5. Allow other apps to work with Mojo, Mojo DX, Nitris DX - including FCP and Premiere Pro.

    6. Revisit pricing adjustments.

    7. Forge deeper ties into the educational market.

    8. Add high-precision transcription functions to ScriptSync.

    9. Add ways to deal with large-res media inside MC in their native sizes, other than through Avid FX.

    10. Develop simple, low-cost, 5-20 user shared storage solution. Volume-level sharing is OK.

    11. Forget Interplay in MC. Most of your user base could care less. It has value for a small percentage of users.

    12. Add sub-frame audio editing capabilities in MC.

    13. Improve/replace MC effects model. Same for titling options.

    14. Increase product evangelism.

    15. Increase roles in film festivals and other visible events for target demographics.

    16. Bring back Avid Free DV (or some form of it) as a free MXF/OMF media player in addition to training aid.

    17. Develop a new server-based news system to replace Newscutter/Unity/Interplay. Look at Quantel's sQ news system and develop an Avid solution based on this approach. This would make a more cohesive, more responsive system for news operations.

    - Oliver

     

  • Sat, Mar 21 2009 1:45 AM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    4:4:4 support and 2K in Symphony. And no, DS is not a Symphony and the workflow is not as smooth.

     

    Oh yeah, and XML support. AAF was cool and all, but XML won. Get over it. There is no reason that it should matter whether a client offlined on FCP or MC. Both should go into Symphony effortlessly.

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

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  • Sat, Mar 21 2009 5:44 AM In reply to

    • jwrl
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    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    TCurren:
    AAF was cool and all, but XML won. Get over it.

    AAF and MXF were an initiative of the AAF Association Inc., (now the AMW Association).  Principal members are Adobe, the American Association of Advertising Agencies, Advent Media, Avid, the BBC, Cinergy GMBH, Discovery Communications, IBM, Lifetime, Metaglue Corporation, National Teleconsultants, Omneon, PBS, Turner Broadcasting, and VCI Solutions.  Amongst the general members you'll find Grass Valley, Quantel, and Sony to name three.  It's by no means dead.

    AMWA's project MS-05 is designed to allow mapping from AAF or MXF objects to XML documents and is being developed in conjunction with SMPTE.  It's currently a work in progress.  Once this is complete it will allow Avid and other early adopters of AAF to easily support both without conflict - a good thing in my opinion.

    This isn't just speculation on my part.  I quote from the AMWA website:

    "Committed to the long-term success of the MXF standard, the AAF Association is pleased to announce that the AAF SDK version 1.2 includes a zero-divergence implementation of both AAF and MXF through a single open-source API, and version 1.3 will extend this zero-divergence implementation to three-way compatibility between MXF, AAF and XML. "

     

    MC 7.0.4 - Asus P6T Deluxe V2 mobo - Intel i7 920 2.66GHz - Windows 7 Ult64 SP1 - nVidia Quadro FX 1800 - 16 Gbyte low latency DDR3 RAM - Internal 8 Tb... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Mar 21 2009 9:19 AM In reply to

    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    OliverPeters:

    So, some thoughts - on track, I hope.....

    1. AMA is a killer feature - expand upon it to include native QT support/import.

    2. Add full Symphony CC feature set to MC and improve both of them to have better secondaries.

    3. Make Digidesign gear totally transparent with MC so that you can use all M-Audio and/or Digidesign hardware with MC.

    4. Allow MC to work with BMD, AJA cards.

    5. Allow other apps to work with Mojo, Mojo DX, Nitris DX - including FCP and Premiere Pro.

    6. Revisit pricing adjustments.

    7. Forge deeper ties into the educational market.

    8. Add high-precision transcription functions to ScriptSync.

    9. Add ways to deal with large-res media inside MC in their native sizes, other than through Avid FX.

    10. Develop simple, low-cost, 5-20 user shared storage solution. Volume-level sharing is OK.

    11. Forget Interplay in MC. Most of your user base could care less. It has value for a small percentage of users.

    12. Add sub-frame audio editing capabilities in MC.

    13. Improve/replace MC effects model. Same for titling options.

    14. Increase product evangelism.

    15. Increase roles in film festivals and other visible events for target demographics.

    16. Bring back Avid Free DV (or some form of it) as a free MXF/OMF media player in addition to training aid.

    17. Develop a new server-based news system to replace Newscutter/Unity/Interplay. Look at Quantel's sQ news system and develop an Avid solution based on this approach. This would make a more cohesive, more responsive system for news operations.

    - Oliver

    13a. Ability to disable/enable individual effects. I can do this in Sony Vegas, and probably Sony Movie Studio, but can't in Avid Media Composer.

    18. Realtime scopes, waveforms and safe color warning. Again, Vegas does this, and it's known as an audio product that happens to do video.

    19. Red camera support a top priority. Same with SI-2K. The "Slumdog Millionare" editor won an Academy Award, but the SI-2K footage would not import into Avid with a LUT, so all the source media had to be re-graded inside Avid. Which was a RPITA.

    20. Promote what Boris Continuum Complete and Avid FX (Boris Red) add to Media Composer. You're giving away thousands of dollars of free software but barely elaborating their capabilities. People say MC can't do secondary color correction. Well it can, with the BCC Correct Selected Color filter. Not as elegant as Symphony or Color, but it gets the job done in many instances. I'm reading in this thread about MC's crappy motion effects. Well, does that include Avid FX (Boris Red)? I think that program is pretty good with movement. Many users don't know what these programs add to Media Composer, and it seems, neither does Avid's marketing department.

    /End of quasi-highjack & back to the economy.

     

    I doubted, even in the best of economies, if Avid had the financial resources, business model and structure to stay an industry leader. Apple and Adobe are powerhouses. I've read how Avid's resources are stretched thin. A high ranking person from Red Digital Cinema last month characterized Avid as "a mess." FCP and Premiere are taking huge chunks of market share

    And for all its notable efforts this past year, Avid can seem slow and muddling. Like a prizefighter, still dangerous and but perhaps past his prime and no longer fast enough to keep up with the new guys.

    When Apple and Adobe look at pro apps they see synergies. But Avid has no high-end computers to sell to the general public or Flash Player hungry for content. Avid's revenues, FWICT, come from editing software, hardware and support. Avid has to make a healthy profit where its competitors may just need to limit loss. Throw in a bad economy, and I wonder about Avid's future.

    That said, I know there is a way to win this. I worked ten years at Goldman Sachs and my group regularly (as in almost always) beat competition which had more people and better funding. How did we do it?

    Simple, we were more passionate, more detail maniacal, took more pride in our work, better leveraged technology, and tore down more barriers to internal communication than did our competitors. We wanted to be first, best and most dependable. And we refused to relinquish that position. If Avid is willing to adopt those attitudes with every fiber of its being, then Apple, Adobe, etc. should be very scared. If not, then IMHO, we will witness a long graceful exit.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Sat, Mar 21 2009 3:08 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    jwrl:
    AAF and MXF were an initiative of the AAF Association Inc.

     

    I am very aware of the history of AAF thank you. I was there. And I had plenty of lively discussions with Bob Turner, it's major champion. I never saw how it would succeed with companies that really don't want to share. 

     

    Apple bypassed it and chose the more open XML format. Turned out to be a wise choice on their part.

     

    http://developer.apple.com/appleapplications/fcpxml.html

     

    jwrl:
    It's by no means dead.

     

    As a popular format to move between edit systems, it has lost the race to XML. Look at Adobe's ability to read an FCP project via... XML. And how do you get an FCP project to Autodesk or Quantel land? XML. And how do you interface that world with Avid? EDL! (you know, that ancient and limited technology)

     

    Avid's current answer is MetaFuze. Won't get you FCP support though.

     

    Or you use Automatic Duck which converts to XML land, but is limited by Avid's proprietary dark channels.

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

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  • Sat, Mar 21 2009 3:15 PM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
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    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    End of quasi-highjack & back to the economy.

    I don't think you can separate product feature discussions from the economy. Features = value and that becaomes a 2-part solution. A) You have to develop best-of-breed product features and B) you have to articulate why they offer a value to the customer.

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    FCP and Premiere are taking huge chunks of market share

    A big reason for this is that both FCP and PPro function as "platforms". FCP more so. I have blooged about this and the point is that based on the openess of FCP, outside developers are creating hardware and software products that work well within the FCS/Apple environment. This means you have far more developers producing augmentation FOR Apple than you have BY Apple. By comparison, Avid develops internally and is perceived as closed. This isn't totally accurate, but the integration with outside developers pretty much ends at the broadcaster, so only 50% of the base sees any benefit of this. If you are an independent or a small post house, you have to buy Avid hardware to work with Avid software. The one attempt to make this better was Xpress Studio - an unmitigated distaster. In fact, search the last few weeks of posts and you still see references to the installation of 3.5 crippling an attached Mbox.

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    A high ranking person from Red Digital Cinema last month characterized Avid as "a mess."

    The folks at RED - nice as they are - are masters of spin. For the most part, the whole native workflow is not worth the effort for projects targeted for video release. In more sane post workflows, Avid and FCP are essentially equal in efficiency. If you own a DS, you now have a leg up on FCP or PPro.

    - Oliver

     

  • Sat, Mar 21 2009 3:55 PM In reply to

    • TVJohn
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    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    As I follow this thread with interest, I wonder how one application could apply to the relatively basic bays of the educational community, couple in the throttling of discretional spending with the current economics, pleasing editors that work on major cinimatic productions, and accepting all the new semipro camera formats.

    Kick in the currently expensive IO hardware, a real wide target to hit, probably causing plenty of loud conversations at MA.

    I think a more affordable open hardware version is the best answer, keep the GUI, so the progression of learning and familiarity is intact, but accessability to a wider clientelle is necessary...

    As I contemplate moving from Liquid to MC I have to ask myself, what MC will offer me that I cannot do within Liquid. Even with the incentives offered, one has to weigh the value added vs other items such as additional cameras, audio capture devices, and lighting improvements. I can tape in HD, edit natively, the Liquid pro box gives me SD output r/t over component outs, and I can author BD via DVDitHD, or for that matter Studio 12.

    I guess Avid will have to decide who its real target MC customers are, and may have to focus everything on them, even accepting the possibility of a shrinking base. Maybe Pinnacle could attack that area.

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    Using MC 8.4. Avid FX6.4, Vegas Pro 15/ DVD Architect 6pro, DVDit6.4proHD, CCE Basic, TmpGe Express4, TmpGe Authoring Works 4, DVDLab-Studio. Sony EX-1R, Canon XH-A1, GL2, GL1, Canon EOS 60D

  • Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:03 PM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
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    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    TVJohn:
    I wonder how one application could apply to the relatively basic bays of the educational community, couple in the throttling of discretional spending with the current economics, pleasing editors that work on major cinimatic productions, and accepting all the new semipro camera formats.

    Without meaning to be flip, that's exactly the edge that FCP and Premiere Pro have. It goes to the heart of my "platform" comment. The trick is to do that and change Media Composer in the process without upsetting the inherent media speed and software stability that Avid has historically enjoyed.

    A common interface is a great idea. This doesn't mean it has to be the same product. Take news for example. Avid has basically cobbled together a news editing system by modifying an NLE designed for an entirely different task. When you compare that to Quantel, there is a consistency of interface, but the news and post systems enjoy a totally different architecture.

    - Oliver

     

  • Sat, Mar 21 2009 4:14 PM In reply to

    • TVJohn
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    Re: How is Avid faring in this tough economy? - Response

    Quite agree, years ago, Pinnacle focused on hardware, bundled Premiere with its hardware until it purchased FAST, thereby forging Pinnacle Edition, begeting Liquid Edition.

    Avid already sells the ED version of MC sans the additional apps. Sell it to everyone at the $300 cost with discounted DVDitHD for say $150 more. Even the wedding and event one man enterprises should find that price point compelling, leverage the Avid name while it still is revelant outside of an ever-shrinking circle.

    This is by no means criticism of the past marketing model, or Avid per se,  it is more a comment on present day.

    Dell Display U2713HM(2560x1440), AMD FX8350 8core, AMD 990FX mobo, 32gig-DDR3-1600, Quadro K620/GTX260/core 216, Audigy2zs, 1TB SSD system drive, 2TB SATA... [view my complete system specs]

    Using MC 8.4. Avid FX6.4, Vegas Pro 15/ DVD Architect 6pro, DVDit6.4proHD, CCE Basic, TmpGe Express4, TmpGe Authoring Works 4, DVDLab-Studio. Sony EX-1R, Canon XH-A1, GL2, GL1, Canon EOS 60D

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