Latest post Wed, Aug 5 2009 8:06 PM by blafarm. 36 replies.
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  • Tue, Apr 21 2009 3:20 PM In reply to

    • Remi MC 3.5
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    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    Could someone explain to me what "1080p/25 (marginal - PsF)" means in the Nitris DX specs.?  Or some site that explains this Psf thing? I still don't get it...

    Media Composer 3.5, Quicktime pro 7.6, Macpro 2x2.26GHz Quad core Intel Xeon, 6 GB Ram, 2 NvidiaGeforce GT 120, Two 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/, 2 Led... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Apr 23 2009 3:55 AM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    Progressive

    segmented

    Frame

     

    PsF. When Sony proposed 24P, they said the would only be able to do it if they could record the frame in halves. This is due to the existing hardware of their tape machines, which recorded two fields. So they would capture the full frame progressively (at the same instant in time) then rip it in half to record it to tape. This wasn't interlaced as it occurred at the same point in time.

     

    The engineers went nuts saying "We don't want interlaced anymore", so Sony, to calm down the lunatics, called it "segmented frames" instead of "fields" and now we have to live with that nomenclature.

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  • Thu, Apr 23 2009 5:03 AM In reply to

    • Mike Wolf
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    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    Further, I believe the two parts in which the frame gets recorded in are the top half and then the bottom half, instead of every other line.

    artist•technician / Great Eyes / Symphony & Resolve [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Apr 23 2009 8:56 AM In reply to

    • Remi MC 3.5
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    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    Thanks for the explanation. So this is not the case with 1080p 25? Because it says "marginal - PsF" in the supported output formats of the Nitris DX readme and I want to connetct a consumer monitor to the nitris dx to watch 1080p 25 material from a sony ex3 camera. In the end it must be transferred to 24, but that is done in another studio.

    Media Composer 3.5, Quicktime pro 7.6, Macpro 2x2.26GHz Quad core Intel Xeon, 6 GB Ram, 2 NvidiaGeforce GT 120, Two 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/, 2 Led... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Apr 23 2009 2:36 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    mikewolf1127:
    Further, I believe the two parts in which the frame gets recorded in are the top half and then the bottom half, instead of every other line.

     

    Not true. It is the usual alternating line recording. You will see this if you get a frame in which one field is from one side of an edit and the second is from another side. This shouldn't be happening in Progressive, but I've seen it from a bad off speed film transfer.

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

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  • Tue, Jul 14 2009 3:12 AM In reply to

    • blafarm
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    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    Sorry to resurrect this old thread but...

     

    >>Mike,

    I believe you indicated having had sucess with your Samsung by crossconverting your video output from 23.976p (which we know is PsF) to 1080i 59.94 in your Avid.   When you did that, were you using the integrated HDMI output on the Nitris DX -- or were you routing the DX's HDSDI to the AJA "HDSDI to HDMI Converter"?  If it was the latter, can you tell me what function the AJA box was performing in that signal chain?

     

    >>AndrewAction,

    You indicated that your Decklink box produces a tiny single field, pixel for pixel image when sourced using SD-SDI.  Is there a better device that you know of for this fuction which is not as limited?

     

    Thanks in advance.

     

     

  • Tue, Jul 14 2009 3:50 AM In reply to

    • Mike Wolf
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    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    blafarm:

    >>Mike,

    I believe you indicated having had sucess with your Samsung by crossconverting your video output from 23.976p (which we know is PsF) to 1080i 59.94 in your Avid.   When you did that, were you using the integrated HDMI output on the Nitris DX -- or were you routing the DX's HDSDI to the AJA "HDSDI to HDMI Converter"?  If it was the latter, can you tell me what function the AJA box was performing in that signal chain?

    I am running the HDSDI out of the Symphony thru an AJA Hi5 HDSDI->HDMI converter and running the HDMI to my Samsung.

    artist•technician / Great Eyes / Symphony & Resolve [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 14 2009 5:24 AM In reply to

    • blafarm
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    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    That's what I thought you were saying. 

    Here's my question:

    If the Sammy doesn't like the Nitris DX's 23.976p (PsF) output even with the AJA box connected -- and if you are crosscoverting to 1080i 59.94 (non-PsF) format using Symphony/Nitris DX -- do you still really need the AJA box in-line to playback on the Sammy -- or could you simply use the HDMI output of the DX directly connected to the Sammy.

    I guess I'm not completely clear on the function of the AJA box in this scenario.

    Apologies if I am confused.

  • Tue, Jul 14 2009 5:46 AM In reply to

    • Mike Wolf
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    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    blafarm:

    That's what I thought you were saying. 

    Here's my question:

    If the Sammy doesn't like the Nitris DX's 23.976p (PsF) output even with the AJA box connected -- and if you are crosscoverting to 1080i 59.94 (non-PsF) format using Symphony/Nitris DX -- do you still really need the AJA box in-line to playback on the Sammy -- or could you simply use the HDMI output of the DX directly connected to the Sammy.

    I guess I'm not completely clear on the function of the AJA box in this scenario.

    Apologies if I am confused.

    My Mac is in a machine room that would require a 100ft HDMI cable to run.  I already had HDSDI coax run.  Just easier for me.  Plus, I have never used the HDMI output, so I don't know what it looks like, color wise etc.  Converting the HDSDI signal that is running to my grading monitor and scope felt better to me.

    artist•technician / Great Eyes / Symphony & Resolve [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 14 2009 2:21 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    Has anyone tried the Gefen converter? Can't tell from the manual but it may be possible to set the output to Progressive. This is the only box that will work with the Dreamcolor monitor as it is the only one that outputs RGB vs. YUV.

     

    http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=4211

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

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  • Tue, Jul 14 2009 2:25 PM In reply to

    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    Just wondering.... would the AJA FS1 work (http://www.aja.com/products/fs1/fs1.php)? It can do a 1080 psf 24Hz to 1080i / 59.94Hz conversion.

     

    And why are they going to even put HDMI on the damn box, if it can't run half the formats the editing system can?

    Glad I read this when I did... I was going to buy four 50" plasmas and use HDMI.

    Dell XPS 8300 - 3.4GHz Quad-Core with Hyper Threading (i7-2600) - 8GB RAM - 1 TB hard drive - ATI Radeon HD 5670 - Windows 7 Ultimate - Sound Blaster X... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 14 2009 3:58 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    No, the AJA box doesn't work. That is how I first found this issue over a year ago. If you are buying plasmas, go for the Panasonic Pro and bite the bullet on the SDI card.

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

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  • Tue, Jul 14 2009 4:08 PM In reply to

    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    I followed Terry's advice. Bought the TH-50PF11 with an HDSDI board. Very low picture delay (around 25ms). And pristine pictures. Eats whatever comes out of the Nitris. No external conversions.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 14 2009 4:58 PM In reply to

    • blafarm
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    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    mikewolf1127:

    My Mac is in a machine room that would require a 100ft HDMI cable to run.  I already had HDSDI coax run.  Just easier for me.  Plus, I have never used the HDMI output, so I don't know what it looks like, color wise etc.  Converting the HDSDI signal that is running to my grading monitor and scope felt better to me.

     

    Thanks Mike.  Now I completely understand.

  • Tue, Jul 14 2009 8:45 PM In reply to

    • blafarm
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    Re: Nitris DX HDMI and 1080p output

    TCurren:

    No, the AJA box doesn't work. That is how I first found this issue over a year ago. If you are buying plasmas, go for the Panasonic Pro and bite the bullet on the SDI card.

    That's a bummer. 

    I was just beginning to look at that box -- as it has many more features than the Gefen HD-SDI to HDMI Scaler

    For the record, and as stated on the "L", Gefen has clearly said that their Scaler will do the PsF to P conversions -- along with any raster cross-coversion ("Anything in -- to anything out"). Howver, the box is currently 10-bit, 4:2: and HDMI 1.2

    In two months they will be releasing a 3G SDI version of the product that, I have been told, will feature 12-bit, 4:4:4 and HDMI 1.3 Deep Color.

    Too bad there doesn't seem to be a another affordable product in the "professional space" that performs this function -- as I was hoping to also get some SDI/Analog conversions in the same box -- in order to add analog IO capability to a Mojo DX.  Something like Black Magic's Broadcast Converter or Multibridge Pro would be perfect -- but those boxes can't resolve the PsF to P issue either.


     

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