Latest post Wed, Jul 1 2009 1:07 PM by tarsem antil. 83 replies.
Page 2 of 6 (84 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next > ... Last »
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Thu, Feb 26 2009 3:06 PM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
    • Posts 3,504
    • Points 42,210

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    Everyone needs to keep in mind that version 10 of Avid DS has made the switch to the AJA hardware, dropping Avid Proprietary hardware.

    Since we are not allowed to speculate, I will stop writing.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.11.0 but playing w 2018.12.6|OS 10.14.x - iMac 2017 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Thu, Feb 26 2009 5:53 PM In reply to

    • NICKB
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 1,182
    • Points 16,295

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    Well i will speculate that Kirk and her new team know they have a problem and will deliver a solution in some shape or form.

  • Thu, Feb 26 2009 8:20 PM In reply to

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    jef:
    version 10 of Avid DS has made the switch to the AJA hardware, dropping Avid Proprietary hardware.

    Yes, but.... the hardware is still inluded in the total turnkey package -

    What has been suggested here is that Avid sell MC software that is "open" to allow the customer to choose either the NitrisDX or the 3rd party hardware of their choosing.  Doing this will not allow Avid to make any money on sales of their own hardware because if given the choice between $15K for NitrisDX or $1500 for BMD, which would you choose? I think that no matter what the features NitrisDX offers over the competition, a price tag of 10x another similar piece of hardware is hard to justify and many customers will just choose to live without any added benefits of owning the more expensive item.  I don't have heated front seats on my car, for example.

    Now a way I could see it working would be if Media Composer was "bundled" with an AJA or BMD card as a total package, in a turnkey system. 

    So you could have different levels:

    a)  MCsoft

    b)  MCsoft with Mac or PC turnkey

    c)  MC, Mac/PC turnkey with AJA, BMD or NitrisDX

    If the cost of item c) was the same or similar no matter what card you chose then I feel that people would opt for the added benefits of the NitrisDX.   So I guess it comes back to "What is the value add of the NitrisDX over the 3rd party alternatives?"

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Thu, Feb 26 2009 9:06 PM In reply to

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    Kenton.VanNatten:
    given the choice between $15K for NitrisDX or $1500 for BMD, which would you choose?
    Time is money just as much as a RPP. Already owning and using both MCA HD and BMD I would choose the Adrenaline HD box every time for Avid. The BMD is great with Protools, though annoying with having to setup the card again each time you feed it a different format.  It is ok for my occassional FCP need.

     

    The Nitris DX box is far better value than the Adrenaline, let alone the Adrenaline HD, so that is my next choice.

     

    Spread over a  5 year + shelf life for HD production the purchase price difference is an insignificant part of the equation. Especially if you use MC software only with FS options on all systems except your onlining suite.

     

    Here the suite with the Avid IO doubles as an overnight capture system for non file based media.

  • Fri, Feb 27 2009 2:11 AM In reply to

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    I would also really like the option to purchase third party hardware and use it with Avid Media Composer.  I am currently looking to purchase a new editing system but I am torn between a software only Avid solution or a complete Final Cut Pro or Adobe Production Premium editing package.  I have compared Avid with Final Cut and Adobe on several levels and I do like the Avid Media Composer editing interface very much.  That's where it ends.  As soon as you add the hardware piece into the puzzle if gets difficult.  I have played around with both MAC and PC hardware configurations but I am more favorable to the PC Vista 64-bit world then MAC at the moment.  However, the Avid proprietary hardware PRICE TAG really makes it hard to swallow.  An AJA Xena 2ke card or decklink Mulitbridge pro card with external box put you at or around what an Avid DS system can do and the hardware is under $3000.  That's quite a bit less money to invest to get a finishing system.

    Opening up the software for third party hardware will level the playing field between Avid, Final Cut Pro and Adobe.  Issues like workflow will continue to change especially that digital camera systems are now the rage.  When you actually look at it the the amount of third party hardware is not all that numerous.  But nevertheless it should be done.  Opening it up to include them will turn a lot of heads.  Avid needs a lot of positive press right now.  Avid also needs to repair it's image to attract a new generation of users.

    Avid should make this move so they can retain existing editors while attracting future editors.  Avid would then be able to focus more of it's hardware expertise in broadcast television and advancing their networking capabilities for all media markets. 

    By the way I recently heard that the Avid Adrenaline box uses an AJA card or something like that.  If that is true then opening up the software to third party hardware will not be a major hurdle for Avid but it will go a long way at getting new customers.

  • Fri, Feb 27 2009 3:07 AM In reply to

    • carlgmi
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Western Australia
    • Posts 754
    • Points 9,340

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    Keeping it "in the family" makes a lot of business sense.  Avid will kill its hardware if we can choose to go to 3rd party equipment at a lower price point - even if their own hardware is better.  In my opinion we need:

    Better explanation of "why" we should choose Mojo/Nitris DX over a 3rd party piece (and if there is no good reason other than "its all that works" then that product is a dud)

    "Monitor only" output card with an Avid branding.  Call it a Mojo LX if you like and retail at $2K or less.  fits inside PC on PCI slot of some flavour - no expensive case, no firewire bottleneck, HDMI and comp output.

    Open this cards architecture up to 3rd party software - FCP, Premier - as well as more open use across internal software - Protools, XSI (now I know that is now Autodesk...) and explain why it is a better choice for your HD monitoring than the competition.

    MC8.10 Win 7 64 with Dongle, Dual 10 core Xeon, Quadro K4000, Adaptec RAID 5-8x3TB, External TB2 4x3TB, 64G RAM, BM Intensity Pro 4K. NewBlue Titler 6... [view my complete system specs]

    Vote 1 - Dongles.

    UME an old engine, now with 4K, mags and furry dice....

  • Fri, Feb 27 2009 3:11 AM In reply to

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    "... I recently heard that the Avid Adrenaline box uses an AJA card or something ..."

    No Media Composer product supports 3rd party hardware.  The Avid DS uses the AJA Xena 2Ke for the 4:4:4 option.

    Symphony 8.8.x w/Avid Nitris DX, HP z420, Windows 10, QT v7.7.x, Hexa Core 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM, nVidia Quadro Series 2000 w/353.82. 2TB Boot, 2 x 3TB internal... [view my complete system specs]

    "There are few technological barriers.  You can fix almost anything if you throw enough money at it."
    *******************************
    Randall L. Rike, ACI, ACSR Mac*Win*Unity*ISIS*DS
    Systems Engineer @ BET Networks [a Viacom company]
    (wwld)

  • Fri, Feb 27 2009 6:13 AM In reply to

    • DylanReeve
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Auckland, New Zealand
    • Posts 1,680
    • Points 20,460
    • Moderator: MCA Mac
      Moderator: MCA PC

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    I've never put them head-to-head, and my FCP experience is nowhere near as strong as my Avid experience, but in my experience with a Blackmagic card (which I still feel is a great card) and FCP is that the performance overall isn't anywhere near as solid and straightforward as either the Adrenaline HD or Nitis DX.

    From a software perspective there are big perfomance gains to be made by integrating tightly with a limited range of hardware. This has always been an argument for Apple computer hardware - namely that Mac OS is faster and better because it can be optimised for a limited hardware platform without having to be open to just any old thing.

    Yes AJA and Blackmagic (and others) deliver high-end I/O for much lower prices than Avid. But it's certainly my experience that Avid's hardware is better integrated and performs better than those offerings do, at least with FCP.

    Even with DS supporting the AJA Xena - it's only the one card. It's not an open architecture. They've optimised the software for that very specific piece of hardware (with a specific Avid-supplied driver too I believe).

    In the context of professional video hardware the DX devices aren't really very expensive, more accurately the AJA and Blackmagic hardware is very cheap.

    Various systems - including HP Z440 and Z840 workstations Media Composer 2018 [view my complete system specs]

    Dylan Reeve - Edit Geek // Online/Offline Editor // Post Production Supervisor
    Auckland, New Zealand

     

  • Fri, Feb 27 2009 7:12 AM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
    • Posts 3,504
    • Points 42,210

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    Hi Randy,

    v10 DS systems use AJA card for ALL IO, correct?  Not just 4:4:4?

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.11.0 but playing w 2018.12.6|OS 10.14.x - iMac 2017 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Fri, Feb 27 2009 12:23 PM In reply to

    • tonyjover
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Birmingham UK
    • Posts 390
    • Points 4,590
    • Moderator: Avid DS

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    jef:
    v10 DS systems use AJA card for ALL IO, correct?  Not just 4:4:4?

    Yes they do, unless that DS is running on a legacy Nitris box.  All new systems are AJA only, and the development costs of getting DS to play nicely with the AJA card is why Avid charge a premium for purchasing a turnkey system.

    Regards,
    Tone :)

  • Fri, Feb 27 2009 12:28 PM In reply to

    • tonyjover
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Birmingham UK
    • Posts 390
    • Points 4,590
    • Moderator: Avid DS

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    Roberto Parentino:
    An AJA Xena 2ke card or decklink Mulitbridge pro card with external box put you at or around what an Avid DS system can do

    Absolute rubbish.

    Have you ever actually SEEN what a DS system can do?

    Regards,
    Tony

  • Fri, Feb 27 2009 3:39 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Avid
    • Posts 10,666
    • Points 223,900
    • Avid Beta Moderators
      Avid Customer Advocate
      Avid Developer Moderator
      BlogAuthor
      SystemAdministrator

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    Tone,

    Perfect comeback.  Once people see DS and know what it can do, they usually stop speculating and comparing with the less expensive system. 

    Marianna

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

    marianna.montague@avid.com

    mobile 813-493-6800

    Twitter:  avidmarianna

    Facebook: Marianna Montague

    www.avidcustomerassociation.com   |  Connect 2019 | April 6-7 | Aria, Las Vegas, NV

    WWLD

  • Fri, Feb 27 2009 4:22 PM In reply to

    • lmerino
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Dec 19 2005
    • Los Angeles
    • Posts 326
    • Points 4,405

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    Sycophant:
    This has always been an argument for Apple computer hardware - namely that Mac OS is faster and better because it can be optimised for a limited hardware platform without having to be open to just any old thing.

     

    I'm sorry... what???

     

    Avid Certified HP Z820 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Feb 27 2009 4:27 PM In reply to

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    The previous users response as rubbish is nothing but rubbish for a response.  To spout Avid because that's all you know or because that's where all your money has been invested is not a comeback.  That's fear.  Why try to quiet people who only want Avid to succeed.  CHANGE IS GOOD. I heard that Avid tried opening up to third party hardware when they had Pinnacle.  It failed because the effort was designed to not change anything with Media Composer but to do it with a different product that had been re-packaged as an Avid product.  Clearly not the same thing.

    Take a look at a Decklink Eclipse configuration and look what it can do for a LOT LESS INVESTMENT.  AJA and Matrox also have really good solutions that don't break the bank.  It's simply this.  If you don't want to change then get out of the way because change is always coming and you not going to stop it.

    ALl the whining, dissing and smart retorts doesn't get you anywhere. 

    Respectfully,

    Osama Bin Farteen

  • Fri, Feb 27 2009 4:42 PM In reply to

    • BLKDOG
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Lansing, MI
    • Posts 17,731
    • Points 226,380
    • Avid Employee
      Moderator: MCA Mac
      Moderator: MCA PC

    Re: 3rd Party Hardware I/O?

    Robert, the respnse to your assertion that the Aja configuration is anything close to DS is, though harsh, much more accurate than you are giving credit for. DS is a much more complete and robust finishing system. it's capabilities are far and above the Eclipse.

    While we all agree here that third party I/O cababilities are essential in today's market, please do not let this discuss devolve into a "My solution is better than yours" spitball contest. If you believe that the Eclipse, or any other system, stands up to DS, then tell us how, in specifics so that we can judge where you are coming from.

    Project Manager, Avid Professional Services - Americas [view my complete system specs]

    In agreement, Unity. In Disagreement, Discussion. In all things, Charity.


Page 2 of 6 (84 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next > ... Last »

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller