Latest post Fri, Feb 14 2014 1:33 AM by AndrewAction. 10 replies.
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  • Thu, Feb 13 2014 5:17 AM

    • JoelGriffen
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    Avid Pan and Zoom in MC 7.0.3 Incompatible? Help!

    I was working in MC 7.0.0

    I created a handful Pan and Zoom effects that played clearly with no pixelation. These were rendered and saved. 

    I upgraded to MC 7.0.3

    The previously rendered Pan and Zoom effect clips play back nice and clearly BUT If I do anything to bust the render I cannot recreate the same effect without it being VERY pixelated. (See the photo below of a Before and After.)

    Fortunately I had a mixdown of one of the shots in question so I can see how drastic the difference is, but this doesn't really help me because I need to modify this image and re-point the pan and zoom at the new updated image file. At first I thought the issue was with my new updated image (see image specs comparison below (spoiler alert: they are essentially the same)), but the same thing happened on a separate unmodified Pan and Zoom clip when clicking "clear render" or when repointing it to its unchanged master jpeg. Again with the poor image quality.   Also I tried making the new image: GREYSCALE, RGB, making the resolution smaller, making it a PNG, making it have a different name. Everything. After this testing I do not think this is an image issue, but who knows. 

    So far my experimentation is leading me to believe this is a bug and or compatibility issue with my setup and/or software.

    To be completely transparent I am working on OSX 10.8.5 which I know is not officially compatible with MC 7.0.3 but it was not compatible with 7.0.0 either and I didn't have any problems (like this) before the upgrade.   I am working with a blackmagic ultra studio express. I turn it off and the same problem persists. New project and new user settings you say? Tried em. Nope and Nope. Same poor image quality on pan and zooms. It just seems broken in this version. 

    I REALLY do not want to use BCC Avid Pan and Zoom in AvidFX. I know people say its better but I do not have the time to re-create all of these moves. I would rather just dig up an old version of Avid and remake them there, make a video mixdown and send the media back to my main machine. This is a bandaid that I would rather avoid but I will have to if I do not find a better solution. 

    Has anyone run into this same issue?  Can anyone run a test and see if they are having issues with blurry Pan and zooms as well in 7.0.3? Any general insight into my probably-obvious-to-everyone-but-me-user-error?  I'm stuck here friends and need some assistance. Any help / advise / ass kicking is welcome.  I know I'm making the Avid version patch upgrade the suspect here but that's just what my trial and error has led me too. I'm open to any suggestions as to what may be causing this. 

    (screenshot below of effect editor window: The keyframe here matches where the timeline was parked when I did the before and after screenshots. also please note that the "before" image has a 2.40 matte that burnt into the video mixdown, hence the black bar. )

    thanks!!

    -Joel 

     

     

     

     

  • Thu, Feb 13 2014 8:35 AM In reply to

    Re: Avid Pan and Zoom in MC 7.0.3 Incompatible? Help!

    Have you tried changing the "Filter" from Triangle to Avid High Quality?

    Is your "Render Mode" set to Progressive

    Is your Project Standard def or High Def? If High def using 2.71 x magnification on an image that is originally only 3000 pixels wide is ambitious.

     

  • Thu, Feb 13 2014 5:34 PM In reply to

    • JoelGriffen
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    Re: Avid Pan and Zoom in MC 7.0.3 Incompatible? Help!

    AndrewAction:

    Have you tried changing the "Filter" from Triangle to Avid High Quality?

    Is your "Render Mode" set to Progressive

    The before and after pictures I originally posted have the settings set exactly the same as one another. So in theory I really shouldn't need to be adjusting any of those settings. In the interest of the trial I have tried changing these settigs you metioned and it does not significantally improve picture quality. Great suggestion though. 

    AndrewAction:
    Is your Project Standard def or High Def? If High def using 2.71 x magnification on an image that is originally only 3000 pixels wide is ambitious.

    1920x1080 /  23.976 project  -  I agree it is ambitious, but like I mentioned, I had already achieved the quality I was looking for with those Pan and Zoom settings.  What I still don't understand is why it was working fine and now it seems to be broken. I cannot achieve the same clarity I did previously and I do not know why.  

     

     

  • Thu, Feb 13 2014 6:48 PM In reply to

    • Dan
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    Re: Avid Pan and Zoom in MC 7.0.3 Incompatible? Help!

    EDIT:

    Just did another test and it seems like it's probably the DPI...

    P&Z to a 400dpi, RGB, 1920x1080, tiff

     

    P&Z to a 72dpi, RGB, 1920x1080 tiff

     

    Effect Settings for both...

    Try changing the graphic's DPI to 72.

  • Thu, Feb 13 2014 7:29 PM In reply to

    • JoelGriffen
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    Re: Avid Pan and Zoom in MC 7.0.3 Incompatible? Help!

    Dan:
    Try changing the graphic's DPI to 72.

    This did the trick! Thanks Dan!!   After changing the dpi of the original image to 72 everything looks as clean as the "before" pic I previously posted. Thanks for doing the research and getting back to me so quickly! 

    Out of curiosity what version of MC are you running Dan? I'm curious if this is a MC 7.0.3 thing or just a issue in regard to upgrading in general. 

    Thanks again! 

     

    -Joel

  • Thu, Feb 13 2014 8:05 PM In reply to

    • Dan
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    Re: Avid Pan and Zoom in MC 7.0.3 Incompatible? Help!

    I'm using MC 7.0.3.  I don't remember if it did this is earlier versions.

    For what it's worth, I try to avoid using grayscale images.  They used to give me problems when I'd round trip between FCP7 and Color.  When we get a bunch of graphics (scans, photos, etc) I'll usually do some sort of batch process/script to change the color to rgb, dpi to 72, and scale stuff down to around 4k in size.

  • Thu, Feb 13 2014 9:08 PM In reply to

    • JoelGriffen
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    Re: Avid Pan and Zoom in MC 7.0.3 Incompatible? Help!

    Dan:
    For what it's worth, I try to avoid using grayscale images. 

    I'll keep this in mind. Thanks again for the help! 

  • Thu, Feb 13 2014 9:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Avid Pan and Zoom in MC 7.0.3 Incompatible? Help!

    I am glad this solution works for you.

    However to me your solution does not make sense. DPI is a measure of dot sizes for measurement in print. Video uses pixels. Both of your images show the image size to have the same number of pixels (1920) so in video terms they are the same resolution.

    On a PC here testing a 1870's grayscale photo originally scanned to 4607px wide @ pixel resolution 800 pixels/inch and saved as a tif (no compression).  In Photoshop I saved another after changing the resolution to 72 pixels/inch and allowing rescaling to maintain the 4607 pixels size. On disk the saved files are identical file sizes and produce identical great quality P and Z' images in 7.0.3 .

    FWIW I then opened a MC7.0.0 timeline with P&Z's using tif's with MC 7.0.3 on a different CPU to the one it was created in. Reattaching the original images (diffeent file paths) in the 7.0.3 timeline results in the same image quality as the  I had in the 7.0.0 timeline.

  • Fri, Feb 14 2014 12:40 AM In reply to

    • Dan
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    Re: Avid Pan and Zoom in MC 7.0.3 Incompatible? Help!

    I agree - it doesn't make sense.  In my original post I said something about the problem probably not being related to DPI because like you said, DPI helps define resolution for print and a graphic that's 1920x1080 pixels is 1920x1080 pixels regardless of how many of those pixels you try to cram into a printed inch.  Maybe it's a PC/Mac thing?  I was able to recreate the problem with multiple photos saved with different DPIs.

  • Fri, Feb 14 2014 1:20 AM In reply to

    • JoelGriffen
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    Re: Avid Pan and Zoom in MC 7.0.3 Incompatible? Help!

    Oh I totally agree with both you guys that it doesn't make any sense. But the problem to begin with didn't make any sense either. Why did clearing a render and re-rendering result in different image quality? Nothing in the image file was adjusted and nothing in the P&Z effect settings was adjusted. I'm just glad I had a video mixdown of the original for reference.

    (Note:I found the problem because I changed one picture and I initially thought where my problem was, but I had the same poor quality issue when just simply clearing a separate P&Z clip's good render and re-rendering)

    All I know is that it shouldn't have broken but it did, and changing the original image to 72 dpi fixes the issue.  I'll leave it to the engineers to figure out why.  Thanks again for both of your guy's help!

    -Joel

  • Fri, Feb 14 2014 1:33 AM In reply to

    Re: Avid Pan and Zoom in MC 7.0.3 Incompatible? Help!

    Dan:
    Maybe it's a PC/Mac thing?
    Could well be. I do not have a Mac with 7.0.3 available today so I cannot try.  MC6 and 7 P & Z uses a different image processing process on PC than earlier versions did. I think that Macs still use the same processing as earlier versions did

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