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  • Wed, Dec 21 2011 7:05 AM In reply to

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Hi Doug,

    Here's an interesting post from blafarm at the L2 about the Artist Color:

    blafarm:
    I'm not sure how many people will be interested in this -- but I figured I'd post it anyway:

    The Avid Artist Color has rubberized circular trackwheels surrounding each of the three trackballs.  Strangely, even the non-operating surface of the device is made from the same rubberized material -- making it unnecessarily hard to clean.

    However, what are NOt rubberized are the 6 soft knobs that are constantly used during CC.  Unfortunately, they are made with a very slippery plastic that provides a poor tactile feel.  Not sure who came up with that idea.

    Anyway, I have solved this problem by purchasing a short length of high-quality, high-temperature, soft black silicon tubing. I have cut it in 1/2" lengths and it fits snugly over each of the knobs -- provides a very nice grippy and precise feel.  And the black color of the tubing does not destroy the look of the device.

    In case anyone is interested, you can order a one foot length of this material from McMaster-Carr Supply Co. (which is more than enough for the 6 Artist Color knobs).  The part number is 5236K93 and their website is:  http://www.mcmaster.com

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Dec 21 2011 2:40 PM In reply to

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    jfay:
    I still haven't seen how yet, but it would also be nice to be able to manipulate and add points on the curves with the trackballs and wheels.

    Hoping you've had time to read the manual now and see the slick way that curves integration is done with the surface.

    Doug

  • Thu, Dec 22 2011 2:42 AM In reply to

    • jfay
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 41
    • Points 465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Doug,

       So am I missing something?  If I activate the highlights tab can I adjust the sliders using the wheels and knobs?  I thought all the wheels and knobs were locked to the master tab.

  • Thu, Dec 22 2011 2:54 AM In reply to

    • jfay
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    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 41
    • Points 465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Doug.Hansel:

    jfay:
    I still haven't seen how yet, but it would also be nice to be able to manipulate and add points on the curves with the trackballs and wheels.

    Hoping you've had time to read the manual now and see the slick way that curves integration is done with the surface.

    Doug

    I read it, but I either don't understand or it's not working right. I'll give it another read tomorrow.  I can't seem to get the points to activate and move using the color surface.  

  • Thu, Dec 22 2011 4:04 AM In reply to

    • John Moore
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Feb 3 2006
    • Studio City, CA
    • Posts 392
    • Points 4,440

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    I have mapped to my avid keyboard function keys the various HSL High, Mid and Low tabs so I bounce between them with a keyboard shortcut.  Is that something I could map to the soft keys on the Artist Color Panel.  I've yet to open my panel because I have to wait till Xmas.  I won't have a symphony handy to try it out on so I won't be able to play with that aspect of the panel.

    Symphony Nitris and Nitris DX 4.x and MCsoft 5.x & 5.5x, MCsoft 6, Artist Color [view my complete system specs]

    John Moore Barking Trout Productions bigfish@pacbell.net

  • Thu, Dec 22 2011 7:29 AM In reply to

    • jfay
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 41
    • Points 465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    John Moore:

    I have mapped to my avid keyboard function keys the various HSL High, Mid and Low tabs so I bounce between them with a keyboard shortcut.  Is that something I could map to the soft keys on the Artist Color Panel.  I've yet to open my panel because I have to wait till Xmas.  I won't have a symphony handy to try it out on so I won't be able to play with that aspect of the panel.

    Yes, I believe you can map anything that can be mapped to your keyboard to the soft keys.  Now only the soft keys are mappable.  Wheels, balls, and knobs are not.

  • Thu, Dec 22 2011 7:37 AM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Feb 8 2006
    • Sweden
    • Posts 13,346
    • Points 159,305

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    jfay:

    John Moore:

    I have mapped to my avid keyboard function keys the various HSL High, Mid and Low tabs so I bounce between them with a keyboard shortcut.  Is that something I could map to the soft keys on the Artist Color Panel.  I've yet to open my panel because I have to wait till Xmas.  I won't have a symphony handy to try it out on so I won't be able to play with that aspect of the panel.

    Yes, I believe you can map anything that can be mapped to your keyboard to the soft keys.  Now only the soft keys are mappable.  Wheels, balls, and knobs are not.

    I´m not using a Color myself, only a Transport but I know that many have both, the Transport have lots of configurable buttons, maybe something to think about using those 2 together.

     

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

  • Thu, Dec 22 2011 4:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    jfay:

    Doug,

       So am I missing something?  If I activate the highlights tab can I adjust the sliders using the wheels and knobs?  I thought all the wheels and knobs were locked to the master tab.

    No, currently locked to Master tab on Symphony.

  • Thu, Dec 22 2011 11:07 PM In reply to

    • jfay
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 41
    • Points 465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Yeah, so while I like the safety of trying to not modfiy the wrong tab sliders, I would like a nav key or soft key that allows me to switch tabs and modify the sliders on the active tab.  Of course trackballs can always be locked to Hue color wheels.  Something like the "bank 1" "bank 2" way of modifying the master Hue wheel.  I don't mind if I have to click a soft button to get me there, but I'd like to be able to make the same adjustments to the other tabs that I can do to the master, otherwise this control surface is really just for a media composer and not for Symphony.

  • Thu, Dec 22 2011 11:08 PM In reply to

    • jfay
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 41
    • Points 465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    mjolnarn:

    jfay:

    John Moore:

    I have mapped to my avid keyboard function keys the various HSL High, Mid and Low tabs so I bounce between them with a keyboard shortcut.  Is that something I could map to the soft keys on the Artist Color Panel.  I've yet to open my panel because I have to wait till Xmas.  I won't have a symphony handy to try it out on so I won't be able to play with that aspect of the panel.

    Yes, I believe you can map anything that can be mapped to your keyboard to the soft keys.  Now only the soft keys are mappable.  Wheels, balls, and knobs are not.

    I´m not using a Color myself, only a Transport but I know that many have both, the Transport have lots of configurable buttons, maybe something to think about using those 2 together.

     

    I have both connected together, the transport adds some additional buttons, but I use them for editing navigation functions mostly.

  • Mon, Dec 26 2011 10:14 PM In reply to

    • John Moore
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Feb 3 2006
    • Studio City, CA
    • Posts 392
    • Points 4,440

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Santa delivered my artist color and I'm having a lot of fun getting familiar with it.  I see how the "Next HSL Tab" works but then to get to curves I mapped the "Next Tab" fo F7 and that brings me to curves.  Once in curves hitting the "Next Tab" does not bring me back to HSL.  I've looked for a "Previous Tab" command to map but don't see one.  Traditionally I've mapped the various tabs to Fkeys on my keyboard.  Perhaps that's the way to go.  I want to just keep hitting the next tab and have it take me from curves to hsl.  I'm on mcsoft 6 still OS 10.6.8 for now.  So far the trackball response isn't as bad as I though it would be but I'm not on a full tilt external scope so I may be just be misjudging by the avid internal scopes.  I'm running it on a circa 2009 MBP 3.06GHz core 2 duo.

    Symphony Nitris and Nitris DX 4.x and MCsoft 5.x & 5.5x, MCsoft 6, Artist Color [view my complete system specs]

    John Moore Barking Trout Productions bigfish@pacbell.net

  • Tue, Dec 27 2011 10:15 PM In reply to

    • John Moore
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Feb 3 2006
    • Studio City, CA
    • Posts 392
    • Points 4,440

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Doug.Hansel:

    Thanks guys,

    We're looking into it.  Would you agree that it's not good to accidentally get into one of those specialty tabs with the surface?
    i.e., I would like it to be slightly harder to step out of of the Master tab.  Remember, that with the current UI, you could be displaying Hue Offsets and when you grab your luminance controls, you may not see which tab is selected.  This is why in the original spec, I wanted folks to have to manually click on the shadow, mid, hi tabs to take the surface into that mode, versus the normal "master" luminance tab.  Everyone I talked with said that for speed, they didn't want to accidentally land in the wrong tab and wonder why the luminance controls weren't working "normally".  I would still like to get that functionality in, just want to do it in a way that doesn't slow folks down and confuse them.

    Now that I've played on the panel just a little with mcsoft 6 I better understand how it's nice to have the wheel be on master setup,gamma and gain.  I would suggest that when I first navigate to hsl the masters are in control.  Then using the up left/right page buttons next to the application button I could step first to the video clip settings like it does now and then if I continued to hit the right page button it would step into the shadows hsl for the knobs and wheels and page right to get to mids hsl and right again to highs hsl.  I would see no need for the video clip pages as they are only on the master tab IIRC.  I'm not on a symphony and haven't had a chance to use the panel on one.  The important thing would be that when you first navigate to hsl through the panel or using a mouse click the panel should control the master hsl tab and only jump to the others after hitting the page rt button.  Page left would take you back to the previous tab all the way to master.  Perhaps this default to master behavior could be a default preference that could be changed if the user wants the hsl to stay where they left it like other aspects of avid work.

    Symphony Nitris and Nitris DX 4.x and MCsoft 5.x & 5.5x, MCsoft 6, Artist Color [view my complete system specs]

    John Moore Barking Trout Productions bigfish@pacbell.net

  • Wed, Dec 28 2011 6:14 AM In reply to

    • John Moore
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Feb 3 2006
    • Studio City, CA
    • Posts 392
    • Points 4,440

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Playing around with my new artist color panel and having fun so far but I haven't done any real work with it so more will be revealed.  On pg 37 of the what's new in mc 6 pdf regarding the reset buttons 1-6 in curves mode the shifted functions listed for R1,R3 and R5 are Toggle Red/Green/Blue Enable.  For example shift R5 should toggle blue enable.  R6 is toggle curve enable which enables the particular curve and pressing and holding R6 deletes the particular point that is active.  I can't see anything happening with the shift R5 button, the enable button under the blue curve does not toggle on and off like pressing R6.  So what is Toggle Blue Enable actually toggling?  Is this a symphony only function?  I'm playing on mc soft 6.  I haven't had a chance to play on a symphony with the panel but look forward to it.  In my simple tests I'm not really seeing that much lag relative to what I'm use to with a Kennsington expert mouse.  I'm running the panel on a MBP with the ethernet straight into the MBP.  I've read about sluggish response and I'm wondering if there may be something different because I'm not controlling the panel through a network switch etc....  I know others have said the panel works much better with Apple Color and Resolve so if those aren't laggy and they are going over the same network that is laggy with Avid color corrector control could there be something about the networked interface that effects only Avid performance?  I'm only throwing that out because my standalone MBP doesn't appear to be any different than I am use to with a trackball on hue offsets.  I am only playing now with no external scopes to see how chunky the adjustments are but looking at the internal avid scopes and the hue offset cross hairs it isn't feeling that bad.  I'll have to wait to try the panel in a full tilt online bay before I can see how it will effect my speed.  It is a lot of fun exploring the various possibilities and I really like the track wheel control of setup, gamma and gain for HSL master.  I'm hoping they will add accessibility to the shadow, mids and highs HSL tabs for symphony color correction and I think it could be easily added using the page buttons when in HSL to pg rt to the various tabs.  Fun stuff so far.

    In searching further it appears the toggle blue enable pertains to the panels use in the secondaries of symphony only.  Can anyone explain how this function works in symphony secondary color correction?  Is this enabling the preset color secondary choices that you use from the basic color boxes instead of sampling the image to determine the secondary color to be effected?

    Symphony Nitris and Nitris DX 4.x and MCsoft 5.x & 5.5x, MCsoft 6, Artist Color [view my complete system specs]

    John Moore Barking Trout Productions bigfish@pacbell.net

  • Sun, Jan 1 2012 1:02 PM In reply to

    • Abie
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Telaviv
    • Posts 268
    • Points 3,310

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Doug.Hansel:

    Hi JD,

    As someone who worked on integrating the surface to work with Symphony, I'd like to hear how you would like the panel to work with levels and channels?  In my discussions with several editors, they indicated that the Levels and channels tabs didn't really suite adjustment by the control surface, so we elected not to try and do anything there for now.  If you have an idea how you imagine it would work, I'd love to hear it.

    As to customizing the color surface, the 9 soft keys are all that is currently available in the Eucon software to be mapped.  That's the way it was built.  Doing more would have taken many months of custom integration work which would mean v6 would still not be here.  Since we had people beating down the doors for it, we shipped it working as it was designed.  Again, i'd be very curious to hear your thoughts about what else you'd like to see the surface do.

    Please understand, Artist Color went through a lot of beta testing, and those folks told us it was absolutely ready to come out of the oven.  We wouldn't have released it otherwise.

    Thanks,

    Doug

    I just bought 2 Artist Colors for our Symphony suites, and am completely bewildered as to why you would not give us control of Highlights, mid tones and shaddows. That for me is the major difference between MC CC and Symphony CC. Secondary is much less important to us. Subtle changes to High, Mid and Shaddows is what we all day long. I am shocked. How soon is a new patch coming out?

    I don't know who you talked to, but I find it hard to believe they were Color correcting on Symphony all day, everyday since version 1.0 - all those years ago, as we have - about 13 years IIRC.

    This for us is urgent - have been waiting for a control service since the aforementioned ver 1.0 of Symphony and was overjoyed when it was finnally announced, but this is a real spanner in the works.

    14xMC 5.03 on HP xw8200/8400/8600 2xSymphony Nitris DX 5.03 and 6.0 HP Z800/6 or 12 Gb ram/nvidia Quadro 4800 [view my complete system specs]

    Abie Edit Studios Telaviv

  • Sun, Jan 1 2012 7:11 PM In reply to

    • jfay
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 41
    • Points 465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Able,

       I'm in full agreement.  I was waiting for a control surface for a long time and have been pretty disappointed with the lack of symphony support.  As usual Symphony feels like the red headed step child of the family.  I'm sending my artist color and transport back until Avid get things figured out.  I'm not going to pay full price to be a beta tester.

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