Latest post Thu, Jun 2 2011 6:39 PM by Bishop_Alex. 4 replies.
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  • Mon, May 30 2011 4:52 PM

    • stuartm
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    • Joined on Mon, May 30 2011
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    Idea [I] MC5+ MACPRO Memory

    Regardless of the amount of RAM installed on a compuiter we know that MC only uses up to a certain amount, I read a lot about 3GB. Ok, understood.

    On my old but trusty PC HP8200 - employing the "Install3GB.exe to Extend Your Usable Address Space" - in a new blank project MC's memory window gave me a Total Physical Memory of 3.4GB and an Available Physical Memory of 1.9GB. On opening a completely empty new project Memory Usage is 1%. This is MC 5.0.3 (technically not supported on an HP8200 but it has never had any problems that i didn't create for myself).

    Now I have reluctantly migrated to the brand new 2011 Westmere MacPro Dual Intel Xeon Quad-Core 2,93GHz with 16GB of RAM (because you can) 13GB of which I know will be completely disregarded by MC 5.5.1 and I have to operate in a 32bit environment. Fine.

    In a new blank project MC's memory window gives me a Total Physical Memory of 2.1GB and an Available Physical Memory of 1.1GB. On opening a completely empty new project Memory Usage is 4%.

    (When opening a blank project in MC5.0.3 on a Mac Pro Memory Usage is 2% but Total and Available Memory are the same 2.1GB / 1.1GB )

    My question is simple: Are these numbers "correct" and if so does this mean that a PC from 2005 - and unqualified for MC5 - gives better memory performance than a 2011 MacPro? The difference is close to 1GB.

    I have seen various threads regarding "Out of Memory", for the record I haven't experienced this problem but it is shocking to see the same project brought over from the PC to Mac devouring memory as if it is going out of fashion. I have also seen the Memory Leak thread but before heading down that road I would like to know what we should expect starting at zero. Because an Available Memory of 1.1GB, in the HD world of 2011, on brand new equipment with a ton of redundant RAM and processing potential, representing no small investment, really does seem a tad lame.

    Or am I missing something here? I hope so.

    thanks

    Stuart

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Mac Pro Dual Intel Xeon Quad-Core 2,93GHz, OSX 10.8.5, MC7.0.3 +SN [view my complete system specs]
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  • Tue, May 31 2011 12:05 AM In reply to

    • hbrock
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Santa Monica, CA
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    • Moderator: Avid Xpress Pro Mac
      Moderator: MCA Mac
      Moderator: Media Composer Getting Started

    Re: MC5+ MACPRO Memory

    Don't confuse Apples and Oranges (Windows).  I believe MC can use 4 GB on OSX (and without a patch to address the additional memory).  The RAM is allocated based on need up to the limits of the OS and you need to trust the OS as there's not really any way to allocate more memory like there was back with OS9.  With all that said, MC 5.5 has been announced as the last major release to run in 32-bit mode.  Why?  Because that will address a number of issues that come up now that more memory is required for AMA and RED and other things that weren't even thought of back when 32-bit addressing seemed like a whole lot of RAM.  Memory leaks combined with a limit on the amount of RAM is not a pretty thing, but it's not limited to OSX, there are some instances where it happens in the Windows world too.

    MacPro, MacBook Pro and a Cube (masquerading as a kleenex dispenser). [view my complete system specs]

    Must think of something clever to go here...

  • Wed, Jun 1 2011 8:55 AM In reply to

    • stuartm
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    • Joined on Mon, May 30 2011
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    Re: MC5+ MACPRO Memory

    Thanks for the reply. The key word you use here however is "believe" (...MC can use 4GB on OSX...). Is this info in an Avid tech sheet somewhere? It seems incredible to me that we "know" so little, and it seems unlikely that Avid doesn't have a handle on how MC uses the available memory on either of the two OS platforms. I thought that at least part of the whole purpose of "quallified" equipment was to be able to create a controlled environment for the application which would then operate within expected parameters. What will happen down the line with 64-bit and future releases of MC are I suppose a given, by now we are resigned to the idea that we work with equipment in constant (and dramatic) evolution, but the root purpose of my original post is to understand exactly how MC uses available memory, what data values to expect without a heavy duty project blurring the numbers, and therefore to be less surprised and better informed when things start leaking and so on. I'd like to trust MC, but I'd also like to know why I trust MC.

    Mac Pro Dual Intel Xeon Quad-Core 2,93GHz, OSX 10.8.5, MC7.0.3 +SN [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Jun 1 2011 9:37 AM In reply to

    Re: MC5+ MACPRO Memory

    stuartm:
    I'd like to trust MC, but I'd also like to know why I trust MC.

    Yes

    From the old Apple Quadro 950 to HP Z8xx. My current own system: 1x Z420 E5 1650 16GB memory, 128GB SSD, 1x XW8600, 2x 3.0Ghz Quadcore, 12GB memory... [view my complete system specs]

    Jeroen van Eekeres 

    Technical director, Broadcast support engineer, Avid ACSR.

     

    Always have a backup of your projects....Always!!!! Yes Always!!!!

    A.V.I.D....... Another Version In Development

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  • Thu, Jun 2 2011 6:39 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5+ MACPRO Memory

    On the Windows systems, the 3GB was changing the virtual memory size to 2700 GBs. That allowed Media Composer to use more RAM (thus decreasing the amount of RAM that was reserved for the OS, allowing it to assign a larger part of your HDD to be used as virtual space memory)

     

    As per the FAQ: http://avid.force.com/pkb/LegacySearch?DocId=389867

    FAQ no.10: Is this the final release for 32bit OS?

    Yes, this is the final release to be supported on a 32 bit OS.

    As per the link below:

    http://avid.force.com/pkb/LegacySearch?DocId=375771

    Media Composer is still a 32 bit application, as of yet. The memory usage is not only governed by the application you are using(which only affects the amount of RAM the application can use at a time, for example), but by the OS itself, as well (32 vs 64 bit kernel)

    Although Mac computers can hold up to 32GB of physical memory, the 32-bit applications that run on them can address only a max of 4GB of RAM at a time (from which at least 1 GB is reserved by the OS). 64-bit computing shatters that barrier by enabling applications to address a theoretical 16 billion gigabytes of memory.Now Snow Leopard is transitioning from 32-bit to 64-bit.

    For a blank project, memory usage of up to 6% was normal (when loading the app initially, and opening the project for the first time in that session), from my experience with MC 5.0.3.1 on Mac 10.6.4. As per the readme file for the updated MC 5.0.3.9 version:

    UDevC00153310. The memory counter on the Macintosh systems spiked unusually to 100% while editing relatively simple sequence. That has been fixed

    UDevC00150610. You might have received Out of Memory errors when checking out sequences from Interplay. This has been fixed.

    UDevC00149465. (Macintosh) The editing application might have crashed when working with ScriptSync. This was due to memory leak issues. This has been fixed.

    If I recall correctly, there was a note somewhere I read about the 64 bit kernel in mac OSX 10.6.x not being fully supported, but I've been using MC on 10.6.4 in the 64 bit kernel just fine.

    The numbers seem to be correct. If you are running in 32 bit kernel, Mac OSX is only able to "see" 2-4 GBs of RAM. In your initial post, you mentioned: "and I have to operate in a 32bit environment." - So I presume you are running in 32 bit mode?

    So, if you did not update to Media Composer 5.0.3.9, I would recommend doing that.

    "The key word you use here however is "believe" (...MC can use 4GB on OSX...). Is this info in an Avid tech sheet somewhere?" - 2GB is a limitation of 32-bit computing in general because:

    Quote: "It's a fundamental computer science limit. 2^32 = 4GB, the top bit is usually used to help distinguish system address space from application address space, so applications have 2^31=2GB of address space to work with" :EndQuote (all over the mac forums, eversince Apple started using 64 bit processors)

    Bottom line is... memory allocation and usage permissions are decided at an OS/kernel level. The applications you are using have little control over that aspect. The free memory displayed by Media Composer is, afaik, the amount of memory that the OS is allowing, as well.

     

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