Latest post Thu, Jun 9 2011 12:05 AM by Ra-ey Saleh. 45 replies.
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  • Fri, May 20 2011 5:49 PM In reply to

    • Abeyta
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    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Does Final Cut have secondary correction? If so, I wasn't aware. 

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  • Fri, May 20 2011 5:58 PM In reply to

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    People argue that it does because Color is included in the bundle.  Personally, I think it's a stretch to say that FCP has secondary color, but MC doesn't have any grading apps bundled with it and I think that's the crux of the arguement there.

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

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  • Fri, May 20 2011 6:11 PM In reply to

    • Abeyta
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    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    oh, thanks for the clarification. Yeah that's a bit of a stretch in my opinion.

    Roundtripping in and out of Color and the ability to apply secondary/advanced corrections in real time in your Avid timeline is a big workflow difference.

    I guess both programs will get you where you want to go but it's more of a time saving workflow convenience.

    However, I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the other non-linear apps will introduce the same type of cc features in the timeline. I hope Avid will be developing ahead of the game and not playing catch up.

     

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    Derrick Abeyta | Blu Pixel

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  • Fri, May 20 2011 6:14 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Well, it sort of does as you can create masks by selecting color in the built in 3 way color corrector. Not really very efficient though.

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

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  • Fri, May 20 2011 6:38 PM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
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    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    In FCP, both the regular CC and the 3-way include an HSL keyer that lets you isolate color. Works more or less like in Symphony, Resolve, Colorista II or Color, but you can stack as many layers as you like.

    - Oliver

     

  • Fri, May 20 2011 6:58 PM In reply to

    • Brickwad
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    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Back in the old days there were different levels of Media Composer - 1000, 9000, etc. Symphony had all the bells and whistles, and was considered to be the finishing system.  Perhaps Avid can again offer different levels of MC, kind of like making something like secondary CC an add on for those who need it, and let Symphony be the end-all system it once was.

    Just a thought . . .

    1 MC4 Nitris DX on 12 core 2.66 mac pro 6 Gigs of Ram, 2 Symphony Nitris DX on eight core mac pro with 12 gig ram, 3 MC7 on Mac Pro, IMAC, and Macbook... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Fri, May 20 2011 7:03 PM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
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    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Brickwad:
    Perhaps Avid can again offer different levels of MC

    Except Avid was failing at that model. That's why Xpress Pro, Xpress DV, Avid Xpress Studio (old version), Avid Free and Liquid were dropped. Same reason all the Pro Tools flavors have largely been merged into Pro Tools 9.

    - Oliver

     

  • Fri, May 20 2011 7:08 PM In reply to

    • Brickwad
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    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    OliverPeters:
    Except Avid was failing at that model

     

    You're right.  How about something more along the line of Plug-ins? The core Media Composer with a menu of optional add-ons such as Secondary CC.

    1 MC4 Nitris DX on 12 core 2.66 mac pro 6 Gigs of Ram, 2 Symphony Nitris DX on eight core mac pro with 12 gig ram, 3 MC7 on Mac Pro, IMAC, and Macbook... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Fri, May 20 2011 7:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Brickwad:
    How about something more along the line of Plug-ins? The core Media Composer with a menu of optional add-ons such as Secondary CC.

    That actually sounds a bit like what Apple is doing with FCPX

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

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  • Fri, May 20 2011 7:47 PM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
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    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Kenton.VanNatten:
    That actually sounds a bit like what Apple is doing with FCPX

    Huh? Where'd you get that? Nothing like that has been stated by anyone.

    - Oliver

     

  • Fri, May 20 2011 9:18 PM In reply to

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Kenton.VanNatten:

    MC doesn't have any grading apps bundled with it and I think that's the crux of the argument there.

    Kenton, technically this isn't the case.  MC has a powerful CC in the Curves and HSL tabs that come as standard.  Most people can do a great job with these alone - certainly for standard grading.  Also, MC does bundle Grading effects with BCC, including a Secondary CC with BCC's 'Color Selected' effect:

    http://www.borisfx.com/videos/BCCAVX/Color-Correction.php

    All are these are acessible easily within the Avid environment with no need for round-tripping.

    That said, it is becoming increasingly difficult to argue the case for having the CC in MC skuttled to make Symphony stand out.  I think I, like most people, believed Avid were going to merge the products.  What Avid have to do is avoid the debacle of their HD introduction with new tools.  First making it only availbe in DS - saying Symphony was never gonna do it; then introducing it into Symphony, saying Adrenalines/MC were never going to be able to do it; then changing their mind's on that.  Most of these decisions were based apparently on hardware limitations, but as Avid becomes all about the software and less about the hardware, these differences are gonna be harder to quanify.  So what does Avid have up their sleeves?  Things sound like they're gonna get very interesting....

    Ra-ey

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  • Fri, May 20 2011 9:32 PM In reply to

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    OliverPeters:

    Kenton.VanNatten:
    That actually sounds a bit like what Apple is doing with FCPX

    Huh? Where'd you get that? Nothing like that has been stated by anyone.

    - Oliver

    So, for $300 we're going to see everything that is currently available in the full Final Cut Studio box, plus more?  I doubt it.  My Magic 8 Ball said "Signs Point to Yes" when I asked if the $300 FCPX was going to be a standalone version.  

     

     

     

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Fri, May 20 2011 9:44 PM In reply to

    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Ra-ey Saleh:

    Kenton.VanNatten:

    MC doesn't have any grading apps bundled with it and I think that's the crux of the argument there.

    Kenton, technically this isn't the case.  MC has a powerful CC in the Curves and HSL tabs that come as standard.  Most people can do a great job with these alone - certainly for standard grading.  Also, MC does bundle Grading effects with BCC, including a Secondary CC with BCC's 'Color Selected' effect:

    http://www.borisfx.com/videos/BCCAVX/Color-Correction.php

    All are these are acessible easily within the Avid environment with no need for round-tripping.

    That said, it is becoming increasingly difficult to argue the case for having the CC in MC skuttled to make Symphony stand out.  I think I, like most people, believed Avid were going to merge the products.  What Avid have to do is avoid the debacle of their HD introduction with new tools.  First making it only availbe in DS - saying Symphony was never gonna do it; then introducing it into Symphony, saying Adrenalines/MC were never going to be able to do it; then changing their mind's on that.  Most of these decisions were based apparently on hardware limitations, but as Avid becomes all about the software and less about the hardware, these differences are gonna be harder to quanify.  So what does Avid have up their sleeves?  Things sound like they're gonna get very interesting....

    Sorry, I did sort of misspeak on that.  

    MC has great color correction capabilities, coupled with BCC and the Paint effect.  My biggest beef being that the internal scopes don't update in real-time and you can't playout the entire sequence in color correction mode.  But, I guess what I should've said is that MC doesn't include some formerly $25K+ grading software that was purchased and clunked into a suite.  

    When Apple bought and included Color in the FCS a few years ago suddenly everyone was expected to have it and know it, because it was implied that you couldn't properly Online a show unless you had Color.  (Where we all these FinalTouch enthusiasts prior to Apple purchasing it?)

    Personally, I've never used Color - never even heard of it (or FinalTouch) before Apple bought it, but I don't do much grading other than the basic stuff you would do in any project.

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Fri, May 20 2011 9:46 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Kenton.VanNatten:
    My Magic 8 Ball said "Signs Point to Yes" when I asked if the $300 FCPX was going to be a standalone version.  

     

    Same here. My guess is that the other apps will be available as a separate purchase. Makes more sense since most FCP users don't need Color.

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  • Fri, May 20 2011 9:50 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: Hopeful news for Symphony

    Kenton.VanNatten:
    My biggest beef being that the internal scopes don't update in real-time and you can't playout the entire sequence in color correction mode.

     

    You should be using an external scope so you know what is coming out. :-0

     

    As for playing the entire sequence, if I'm understanding you correctly, you are just missing the secret step. If you map the button that loops play in trim mode, it will actually play out past the shot you are on in the Color Corrector. Not intuitive, but it has been there all along and is actually in the documentation.

     

    I have it mapped to Shift + L

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

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