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  • Wed, Sep 1 2010 8:10 AM In reply to

    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    jveekeres:

    What do you see as a solution?

    For now, if you really want to use QT reference and long-GOP, buy the codec. I did a bunch of hutning for a free codec that would work but didn't find any solutions.

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  • Wed, Sep 1 2010 1:16 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    jveekeres:
    What do you see as a solution?

    Super Angry Hello Jeroen, are you trying to put me on the spot? Hehehehehe.

    A summary of my own personal place in this is as follows.

    I have never had any issue doing mixdowns of HDV Long GOP sequences, then exporting QT reference files.
    Because of the type of projects I am working with my sequences are never usually longer than 10 to 15 minutes
    As I have said elsewhere, I am a believer of doing mixdowns in all cases.

    If I need to come back and make any changes...... there are no problems, as I do the mixdowns from Duplicates, not from the originals.

    I am certain that this new possibility of doing a direct export of LongGOP clips is to make MC more attractive to  FCP users. I guess that they would almost certainly have the needed codec already.

    I do not believe that this possibility was provided, to appease the unhappy MC-PC users who are using long GOP clips.

    Because I believe this, I no longer feel that I have been misled by the ReadMe statements.

    If anyone working solely on a PC wants to have the possibility to export LonGOP sequences, and they are not happy with doing a mixdown, then they will have to pay for the function.
    Maybe Avid should try and stike a deal with the codec owners to offer a discount for genuine MC users.

    I don't use Squeeze at all, but I do use AvidDVD and more often, Sonic DVDitProHD.
    I do not usually import QT-reference files into them.
    I normally use Sonic Cinevision and encode my QT-reference files to VC1.
    The VC1 files ALWAY pass through AvidDVD/DVDitProHD.

    The few times I need a DVD of the Blu-Ray project I just choose the DVD output when necessary. It means one more encoding (but no re-authoring)...... however, as I said, it is seldom I need a DVD nowadays. 

    The codec jungle exists, but it is further complicated by the wide variation in workflows and needs that all of us users have. We are all working with different ideas on authoring, have different customer demands, different source material etc. etc.
    Take 100 MC users and I doubt if more than 10 are using similar workflows aimed at producing a similar end product.
    That is one of the main reasons we have people like me who are quite happy with the situation and, at the other end of the spectrum, people who are extremely angry with the whole encoding situation.

    Well I did go on a bit there...... I hope that there were some glimmers of wisdom! Stick out tongue

    Regards,
    Douglas

     

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  • Wed, Sep 1 2010 1:22 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    Scott Carnegie:

    jveekeres:

    What do you see as a solution?

    For now, if you really want to use QT reference and long-GOP, buy the codec. I did a bunch of hutning for a free codec that would work but didn't find any solutions.

    Or, the Scottish way......... do a mixdown when you are ready for exporting.
    It works and it doesn't cost actual money! It may take some time, but . . . . . . . .

    Scott, do you know if MAC users who also use FCP are likely to have the codec already installed?

    Regards,
    Douglas

     

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  • Wed, Sep 1 2010 6:53 PM In reply to

    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    drbgaijin:
    Maybe Avid should try and stick a deal with the codec owners to offer a discount for genuine MC users.

    Thx Douglas for your detailed answer,

    I personally also always do a mixdown of any timeline when exporting outside of the Avid world... It makes things a lot less complicated.

    Anyway... I believe that this is a typical case where we have a program/codec that Avid could add to the 3rd party software package that comes with MC. Not just because Avid should include all the tools for a complete workflow... Also because we need some control over the certification of the codec. Which codec version is certified etc...

    That we have to download the correct version of quicktime has always been a problem until the links to all the correct versions of quicktime were posted on the forum...  Creating more of those problems doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

     

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  • Thu, Sep 2 2010 1:17 AM In reply to

    • Afridi
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    drbgaijin:

    Afridi:

    drbgaijin:
    The following post is a report on my findings on the new function introduced with the patch 5.0.3.1.

     

    Hi Douglas,

    How did you get this patch 5.0.3.1?

    I could not find it on the avid download site. All I see is 5.0.3.

     

    Regards,

    Afridi

    Here you are Afridi

    http://www.avid.com/US/support/downloads/patches

    Regards,
    Douglas

    Thank you Douglas.Yes

     

    Regards,

    Afridi

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  • Thu, Sep 2 2010 4:56 PM In reply to

    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    drbgaijin:

    Or, the Scottish way......... do a mixdown when you are ready for exporting.
    It works and it doesn't cost actual money! It may take some time, but . . . . . . . .

     

    I often work on long shows, 1 hour plus, a QT Reference is quite the timesaver in that instance.

    drbgaijin:

     

    Scott, do you know if MAC users who also use FCP are likely to have the codec already installed?

    I asked a FCP editor I know and he wasn't familar with it.

     

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  • Thu, Sep 2 2010 5:17 PM In reply to

    • cuervo
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

     

    I beleive the situation is this:

    A video file contained in an .mov wrapper isn't universally playable in PC and MAC. The wrapper, itself, is different. In other words, an mov file created on a MAC will not play if transferred over to a PC and visa versa. The Calibrated {Q} codec  allows an mov file created in the MAC mov wrapper, to be played on a PC.

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  • Thu, Sep 2 2010 10:11 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    Scott Carnegie:

    drbgaijin:

    Or, the Scottish way......... do a mixdown when you are ready for exporting.
    It works and it doesn't cost actual money! It may take some time, but . . . . . . . .

     

    I often work on long shows, 1 hour plus, a QT Reference is quite the timesaver in that instance.

    ........ and I work with many shorter "segments" that I author together later.
    So our different workflows are the reason for our different ways of working with QT reference files.

     

    Scott Carnegie:

    drbgaijin:

     

    Scott, do you know if MAC users who also use FCP are likely to have the codec already installed?

    I asked a FCP editor I know and he wasn't familar with it.

    Thanks for that information Scott.
    I was totally wrong in my assumption.
    Assumptions can be dangerous things! Geeked

    Regards,
    Douglas

     

     

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  • Thu, Sep 2 2010 10:15 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    cuervo:
    In other words, an mov file created on a MAC will not play if transferred over to a PC and visa versa. The Calibrated {Q} codec  allows an mov file created in the MAC mov wrapper, to be played on a PC

    Thank you Bill.

    As usual you give a clear explanation which even I can understand.
    Yes

    Regards,
    Douglas

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  • Fri, Nov 19 2010 11:14 PM In reply to

    • Dan Grimes
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    A lot of discussion about LongGOP formats here and many statements that I would love to comment on.  I'll just give some general words that are meant as a response to other comments:

    The digital world promises some great efficiencies.  These efficiencies equate to both man-hours, processing time and storage space, all requiring real money.  The stakes might not be as big for the independant, but it adds up with multiple users.

    A mixdown takes time.  Yet, there are good reasons to mixdown.  But when working on long-form projects, it is inefficient to re-create the entire media.  Thus, the Reference file can be a great space saver.

    But just as important, the files should not need to be transcoded to a new format.  If working in the LongGOP format, it should either mixdown to, or generate a Reference to, files using the same codec.  To transcode is to waste time and storage space.

    For the independant editor, perhaps these little inefficiencies do not mean much.  But here at UNLV, we have over 25 editing systems and hundreds of editors (students and professionals).  At present, we are stuck on MC 3.5.9 and we must transcode every sequence to DNxHD 145 Mb/s.  It doesn't help that we must have both the original 35 Mb/s and the mixdown 145Mb/s version of the media on our ISIS system.  And the 145Mb/s version cannot, or at least should not, be archived.

    As a News workflow, the LongGOP works fine: AMA ingest, MC/NC edit, Transfer to the AirSpeed server.  All no problem.  But to get the edited media to anything outside, the media can be multiplied and transcoded several times and in various bit rates.  The time and space wasted to do this is no small matter.  We fill up our 15 TB ISIS and 48TB NAS to the top all the time and must keep deleting religously.

    So the QT reference of a LongGOP format promises efficiencies that are very important to us but yet to be delivered.

     

    As far as the codec goes, we have dozens of Sony EX cameras using the XDCAM EX codec.  We also capture XDCAM EX media from the AirSpeed MultiStreams.  We push the edited packages to the AirSpeeds in XDCAM EX.  In my opinion, if the entire workflow is based on XDCAM EX, then Avid should provide the XDCAM EX codec on their systems.  They must have something to use the XDCAM EX material, but it is not available for third-party software.

    But at the same time, if Sony is going to sell a camera with the XDCAM EX codec, they should provide it for use on your editing system as well.  They do provide the Sony ClipBrowser, but this does not make the codec available to all software.  It does allow for export to other MXF formats, yet another transcode.  But the XDCAM EX clips cannot be decoded (i.e., used) in third party software.  I believe it should be provided.

    To some, $80 might not be much, to others, they refuse to fork out for one license.  We would have to fork out $80x25=$2000.  No small matter.

    So I have some strong opinions on the promise and delivery of fully integrating LongGOP formats.  I do not believe those promises have been fullfilled.  Although, many may argue that the promises are theoretical and have not be verbalized in the Avid MC world.  Perhaps so.

     

    Dan

     

  • Sun, Nov 21 2010 10:11 AM In reply to

    • gswilson
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    This thread is another example of just how valuable the forum is.

    I have just finished an edit of 20mins from 5 hours of footage shot on a Z1. I exported a QT Ref and couldn't get it to show video in anything on my system - QT Pro, Sorenson, TMPGE. I really thought I was loosing it until I read this thread.

    A Video mixdown solved the problem - and no I will not be forking out $80 for a Codec.

    We Irish have a lot in common with our friends in Scotland.Big Smile

    Gerry

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  • Thu, Dec 2 2010 5:21 PM In reply to

    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    Dear Douglas,

    I would like to thank you for this research (which, I see, turned at last to an investigation :)

    It saved me lots of time.

     

    Best,

    Shlomo

     

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  • Thu, Dec 2 2010 6:17 PM In reply to

    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    TMPGEnc can also accept QT refs.

    Desktop PC

     

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  • Thu, Dec 2 2010 8:47 PM In reply to

    • gswilson
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    sverkalo:

    TMPGEnc can also accept QT refs.

    Very true George, but it will not accept any QT Ref files with long GOP created from HDV 1080i without the $80.00 codec being installed on the PC.

    Gerry

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