Latest post Fri, Jun 11 2010 12:21 AM by Larry Rubin. 10 replies.
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  • Thu, Jun 10 2010 6:41 PM

    • weekender
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    • Vancouver, Canada
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    HDV Workflow concern. Still best to capture and edit in SD?

    I'm about to start a new project and am wondering if the best thing to do is to capture downconverted to DV into a 30iNTSC project; edit; switch to HDV and recapture tapes in HDV, then relink? When I search the forum for HDV workflow, the posts are in 2006 so I'm wondering if this is still the best or is there a less complicated format now. I'm still using Media Composer 3. Do more recent versions make it smooter to edit the captured HDV long GOP material? I used the above workflow on my last project and ran into syncing problems when it came to recapturing all the clips in HDV so I'm hoping I don't have to do this anymore.

    I'm obviously green at this so thank you for your help!

    Windows 7 Avid Media Composer 5 Quicktime 7 Intel core i7 2600k quad core cpu 3.4GHz 8 GB Ram NVIDIA GTX 560 Ti Hawk 1GB video card Hitachi Deskstar... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jun 10 2010 6:45 PM In reply to

    Re: HDV Workflow concern. Still best to capture and edit in SD?

    I work with HDV. No problems.

    But it also depends on the system.

     

    Desktop PC

     

    Corsair RM750X|Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)|i7 2600K@4.4|Corsair 32G DDR3|PNY Quadro P2000(442.92)|Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB|2x1TB Crucial MX500@RAID 0|2x500GB Mushkin SSD@RAID 0|LG BH16NS40|W10 Pro 64bit|Media Composer Software 2020.6 with Symphony Option on Dongle|2xHP 22'' Monitors|M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Thu, Jun 10 2010 10:12 PM In reply to

    • weekender
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Jan 4 2007
    • Vancouver, Canada
    • Posts 56
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    Re: HDV Workflow concern. Still best to capture and edit in SD?

    Well my system includes an:

    Intel 6600 Core2 Quad CPU @ 2.4GHz, 4 GB Ram and an NVIDIA GeForce 9800gtx+ Video card and I'm editting with Media Composer 3.

    If I upgrade any of this will I be able to capture and edit HDV large GOP smoothly? (or is it best to capture and edit in sd and recapture in HDV and relink later)? I don't edit very much so I was hoping no to have to put out the large amount of money for the recommended Quadro Video card

    Thanks!

    Windows 7 Avid Media Composer 5 Quicktime 7 Intel core i7 2600k quad core cpu 3.4GHz 8 GB Ram NVIDIA GTX 560 Ti Hawk 1GB video card Hitachi Deskstar... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jun 10 2010 10:14 PM In reply to

    Re: HDV Workflow concern. Still best to capture and edit in SD?

    I have the same CPU just running it at 3G!

    If I was you the first thing I would upgrade to would be Media Composer 5!

    Your systme is more than capable for HDV weekender.

    (P.S. Any poetic approach to MC5 is under supervising for the time being so I would just say MC5)

    Desktop PC

     

    Corsair RM750X|Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)|i7 2600K@4.4|Corsair 32G DDR3|PNY Quadro P2000(442.92)|Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB|2x1TB Crucial MX500@RAID 0|2x500GB Mushkin SSD@RAID 0|LG BH16NS40|W10 Pro 64bit|Media Composer Software 2020.6 with Symphony Option on Dongle|2xHP 22'' Monitors|M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Thu, Jun 10 2010 10:15 PM In reply to

    Re: HDV Workflow concern. Still best to capture and edit in SD?

    Weekender:

    Since HDV is not native to Avid, many users have found that the workflow is much smoother and less prone to errors if immediately after ingesting the HDV material you transcode it to a DnX resolution and edit your project that way.

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Thu, Jun 10 2010 10:27 PM In reply to

    Re: HDV Workflow concern. Still best to capture and edit in SD?

    Isn't the HDV1080i codec (resolution) a native one inside MC4?

    And to work with DNxHD 120 or 185 needs more resources.

     

    Desktop PC

     

    Corsair RM750X|Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)|i7 2600K@4.4|Corsair 32G DDR3|PNY Quadro P2000(442.92)|Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB|2x1TB Crucial MX500@RAID 0|2x500GB Mushkin SSD@RAID 0|LG BH16NS40|W10 Pro 64bit|Media Composer Software 2020.6 with Symphony Option on Dongle|2xHP 22'' Monitors|M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Thu, Jun 10 2010 11:51 PM In reply to

    Re: HDV Workflow concern. Still best to capture and edit in SD?

    Maintaining HDV throughout the course of a project has proved problematical for many users, with significant stability issues and crashes having been reported. Transcoding to DnX has proven to be a more reliable and stable workflow.

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Fri, Jun 11 2010 12:08 AM In reply to

    Re: HDV Workflow concern. Still best to capture and edit in SD?

    Larry Rubin:

    Since HDV is not native to Avid, many users have found that the workflow is much smoother and less prone to errors if immediately after ingesting the HDV material you transcode it to a DnX resolution and edit your project that way.

    I always figured that HDV actually was a native file format supported within Avid. It is on my trusty Xpress Pro system. Sure, it doesn't support the Canon HDV progressive F-formats (24F, 30F etc...), but HDV standard 720p/1080i certainly does work.

    I cut some material natively in HDV once, and it worked surprisingly well, but I agree whole-heartedly with you that a transcode to DNxHD (preferably thin raster) is a better way to go.

    There's just no beating the smoothness and frame accurate editing of an I-frame codec like DNxHD. Yes

    MSI Neo-2 Platinum Nforce3 Ultra (Bios Rev 1.0D) Athlon64 X2 4200+ (Overclocked to 2 x 2.4GHz) AMD Cool'N'Quiet CPU Throttling 2GB Corsair PC3200... [view my complete system specs]

    "When the waters are at their calmest, that's when folk most want to skim their pebbles." - Me

    "Be water my friend." - Bruce Lee

  • Fri, Jun 11 2010 12:12 AM In reply to

    • weekender
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    • Joined on Thu, Jan 4 2007
    • Vancouver, Canada
    • Posts 56
    • Points 965

    Re: HDV Workflow concern. Still best to capture and edit in SD?

    Has anyone else had syncing problems I had when trying to recapture all the clips after using this workflow?: capturing downconverted to DV into a 30iNTSC project; edit; switch to HDV and recapture tapes in HDV, then relink?

    I like Larry Rubin's recommendation of capturing HDV and transcoding to DnX for editting but I have about 40 hours of film to capture (and therefore transcode to DnX.)

    Do you think it's less hassle to just suck up the transcoding time and transcode to DnX?

    Windows 7 Avid Media Composer 5 Quicktime 7 Intel core i7 2600k quad core cpu 3.4GHz 8 GB Ram NVIDIA GTX 560 Ti Hawk 1GB video card Hitachi Deskstar... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Jun 11 2010 12:19 AM In reply to

    Re: HDV Workflow concern. Still best to capture and edit in SD?

    I never encountered any sync problems, but then I'm in PAL land, and maybe you might be encountering something specific to NTSC material? 30i drop frame/non-drop frame etc...? I dunno.

    Why do you feel you need SD material to cut with? Is it because of resources/storage/processing?

    HDV is long-GOP so it's certainly nowhere near as smooth to cut with as an I-frame system like SD/DV or DNxHD.

    You could, if you really prefer not cutting with HDV, import the HDV material natively and then create/transcode some low-resolution proxies in DV25 or something like 14:1. That way the low-resolution material you cut with is created internally from the already-captured HDV material. Might solve any sync issues when you relink to the higher resolution material.

    Just throwing an idea or two out there.

    If storage and CPU usage isn't an issue, I'd still always go with DNxHD in it's native thin-raster (DNxHD-TR) format for 1080i and native DNxHD (full raster) for 720p.

     

    MSI Neo-2 Platinum Nforce3 Ultra (Bios Rev 1.0D) Athlon64 X2 4200+ (Overclocked to 2 x 2.4GHz) AMD Cool'N'Quiet CPU Throttling 2GB Corsair PC3200... [view my complete system specs]

    "When the waters are at their calmest, that's when folk most want to skim their pebbles." - Me

    "Be water my friend." - Bruce Lee

  • Fri, Jun 11 2010 12:21 AM In reply to

    Re: HDV Workflow concern. Still best to capture and edit in SD?

    weekender:

    Do you think it's less hassle to just suck up the transcoding time and transcode to DnX?

    After I lost a considerable amount of time and effort struggling to work with HDV directly, the very next project I did just that - sucked it up and did the transcoding, and made sure that was a line item in the budget projection for the show, and the entire edit went smooth as silk from beginning to end. In my opinion, comparing the time I lost to the time it took to transcode, I'll choose transcoding every time. But that's just one man's opinion...

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

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