Latest post Sat, Apr 24 2010 3:33 PM by OliverPeters. 104 replies.
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  • Mon, Apr 19 2010 8:10 PM In reply to

    • switthaus
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    Re: SYMPHONY = A B A N D O N W A R E

    TCurren:

    One thing that hasn't been mentioned here. If Blackmagic sells a ton of daVinci systems, maybe Avid will take notice and see there is a market for good color correction in their systems.

    great thought, but they better commit to keeping it up to snuff or someone will come up with a way to import the sequence and media and cut Avid out of the game...

     

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

  • Thu, Apr 22 2010 10:51 AM In reply to

    • editdudes
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    Re: Symphony - In desperate need of some TLC

    I'd like to return to the original topic of this thread, and let you guys know why we're so disappointed with Avid these days.

    A couple of years ago, we made an investment (that at the time seemed like a really good idea), by trading in one of our MC Adrenaline HD systems for a spanking new Symphony Nitris DX.

    The main reason for choosing Symphony was the real time CC with secondaries, and we were lead to believe that the development of this premium priced finishing system was as important to Avid as it is to us. 

    Version 3 and 3.5 came along, then version 4 and now version 5, with absolutely no improvements to the features that convinced us that Symphony was a more efficient grading tool for the projects we work on.

    Now we have sadly come to realize that both Symphony and DS, Avid's top of the line products, have been marginalized by upper management for years and that this isn't about to change in the near future.

    Avid's attention is obviously 100% focused on MC, while Symphony and DS are neglected to a degree where you can't even find them mentioned on the web site if you don't know what you're looking for.

    Some people argue that there is no mentionable neglect and that we should be happy with what we 've got since all MC improvements are also implemented in Symphony. This reasoning is nothing but ridiculous since we've obviously chosen to invest our hard eaned cash in a product that is supposed to be superior to MC in most aspects.

    In reality, Symphony is losing it's advantage over MC and some competing products more and more for each and every version released !!!

    This is extremely disappointing and frustrating, especially since Avid absolutely refuses to acknowledge the neglect and totally ignores all questions regarding the future of Symphony !!!

    So what does all this tell us?

    Is Avid run by a bunch of corporate yahoos with little or no understanding of what we do or want from our tools?

    Probably not, but upper management is trying to make their business a profitable one by focusing on MC, and if this means they'll have to jeopardize the goodwill of a bunch of loyal Symphony and DS customers, neglect and offend us by refusing to communicate with us in an acceptable manner, then they'll do just that.

    Avid means business, and commitment is not on their short list these days.

    "We are listening!", what a sad joke...

     

     

     

    Symphony Nitris DX • MC Adrenaline DNxcel 5.5 • DaVinci Resolve • VirtualDub :) [view my complete system specs]

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  • Thu, Apr 22 2010 11:36 AM In reply to

    • Neil J
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    Re: Symphony - In desperate need of some TLC

    I don't think you will find many who are not sympathetic to your disappointment and frustration that Symphony has not seen development and improvement in the past few years.

    Much of the new versioning addresses workflow improvements, AMA etc. My own wishlist of Symphony improvements are similar to most others here but personally i would love to have seen MC (or Symphony whichever branding works best...) scrapped and the added value of Symphony unlocked by Nitris DX.

    But when you traded up what were your expectations? Are you no longer convinced that Symphony is as efficient in your workflow and if not what has changed?

  • Thu, Apr 22 2010 11:37 AM In reply to

    • switthaus
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    Re: Symphony - In desperate need of some TLC

    editdudes:
    Some people argue that there is no mentionable neglect and that we should be happy with what we 've got since all MC improvements are also implemented in Symphony. This reasoning is nothing but ridiculous since we've obviously chosen to invest our hard eaned cash in a product that is supposed to be superior to MC in most aspects.

    So, what would you remove from MC to make it inferior to Symph?  And you can't take any of DS's features because the DS owners paid a lot more money than you did for your Symphony (for a superior product).  What features do you hold back from the far greater numbers of MC owners and give to Symphony?  Sorry, that game does not work anymore.

    Avid screwed the pooch early on by creating a product line with all these oh-so-close products at different price points.  They realized this with Xpress and MC and killed Xpress.  Now it looks like you are seeing the start of merging all the products under the MC banner.   And this is probably a smart move for the long term health of the company.

     

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

  • Thu, Apr 22 2010 12:23 PM In reply to

    • Haze
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    Re: Symphony - In desperate need of some TLC

    Neil J:

    But when you traded up what were your expectations? 

    I can't answer for editdudes, but I can say that my expectations were (and still are) that Symphony would continue to be improved beyond MC's capabilities.  At NAB there wasn't any signage that indicated that Symphony still existed.  When I asked about the status of Symphony I was told that all of the new features in MC5 would be included in Symphony 5.  This is the same pat answer we've heard for the last few upgrades.  What Symphony users expect is a new "Symphony feature" *see the feature request forum for the list of potential improvements". 

    Neil J:
    i would love to have seen MC (or Symphony whichever branding works best...) scrapped and the added value of Symphony unlocked by Nitris DX.

    Clearly this is where it's heading.  Narrow/consolidate the product line up.  If Symphony is EOL'd in favor of MC I suppose Avid could give the current Symphony owners a T-shirt or ball point pen to console them for their loss.  FWIW, the DS is also in need of attention.  Whatever Avid decides to do with their product line they must continue to have a high end finishing tool as a choice for their customers.

    Avid DS 11 | Z800, Symphony 6.5 | HP xw 8600, MC 6.5 | HP Z400, Unity Storage [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Apr 22 2010 12:25 PM In reply to

    • editdudes
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    Re: Symphony - In desperate need of some TLC

    Neil J:

    But when you traded up what were your expectations?

    Sorry, but did you really read my entire post? Those answers should be totally obvious if you did.

    Our expectations were that the added features we invested in should be developed and improved over time. Quite reasonable, don't you think, and true for most comparable products i can think of.

    Are you no longer convinced that Symphony is as efficient in your workflow and if not what has changed?

    Do you mean "as efficient as it was when we first got it" ?

    I am no longer convinced that the features we invested in are being developed and improved as we should have reason to expect.

    Nothing has changed, and that is the key problem and also the answer to your second question. 

     

     

    Symphony Nitris DX • MC Adrenaline DNxcel 5.5 • DaVinci Resolve • VirtualDub :) [view my complete system specs]

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  • Thu, Apr 22 2010 12:43 PM In reply to

    • Neil J
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    Re: Symphony - In desperate need of some TLC

    editdudes:

    Sorry, but did you really read my entire post? Those answers should be totally obvious if you did.

    Our expectations were that the added features we invested in should be developed and improved over time. Quite reasonable, don't you think, and true for most comparable products i can think of.

     

    I am no longer convinced that the features we invested in are being developed and improved as we should have reason to expect.

    Nothing has changed, and that is the key problem and also the answer to your second question. 

     

     

    I did read your entire post. Eloquent as ever.

    Let me rephrase:

    Were you ever given the impression from Avid that added features and improvements were imminent? I really doubt it beacuse that just hasn't happened in 10 years of Symphony.

    Do the features still fit your workflow after a couple of years and do you still see the benefit and added value from that initial investment? That's the thrust of my 2nd question. So if the answer is still no - what has changed?

  • Thu, Apr 22 2010 12:50 PM In reply to

    • editdudes
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    Re: Symphony - In desperate need of some TLC

    switthaus:

    So, what would you remove from MC to make it inferior to Symph?  And you can't take any of DS's features because the DS owners paid a lot more money than you did for your Symphony (for a superior product).  What features do you hold back from the far greater numbers of MC owners and give to Symphony?

    I have never suggested or implied that anything should be removed from either product, and I find your question questionable.

    Avid screwed the pooch early on by creating a product line with all these oh-so-close products at different price points.  They realized this with Xpress and MC and killed Xpress.  Now it looks like you are seeing the start of merging all the products under the MC banner.   And this is probably a smart move for the long term health of the company.

    That is not necessarily true.

    Merging all products under the MC banner by renaming Symphony and DS probably won't improve anything.

    Killing off Symphony is a more than likely next move, but Avid hesitates because they are clueless about how to deal with a pissed off Symphony community.

    DS can't easily be merged with MC, so this will probably never happen.

     

     

    Symphony Nitris DX • MC Adrenaline DNxcel 5.5 • DaVinci Resolve • VirtualDub :) [view my complete system specs]

    E D I T   D U D E S

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    Malmö - SWEDEN

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  • Thu, Apr 22 2010 1:17 PM In reply to

    • editdudes
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    Re: Symphony - In desperate need of some TLC

    Let me rephrase:

    Were you ever given the impression from Avid that added features and improvements were imminent? I really doubt it beacuse that just hasn't happened in 10 years of Symphony.

    Yes we were (even if imminent is a fairly loose term), and the fact that Symphony specific features hadn't changed much in a while also added to this impression since it was now high time for a makeover.

    Do the features still fit your workflow after a couple of years and do you still see the benefit and added value from that initial investment? That's the thrust of my 2nd question. So if the answer is still no - what has changed?

    The answer is yes, but with little or no significant development or improvements to the grading aspects of Symphony we probably won't invest in updates, and will definitely consider competing products to get more capable tools for our color grading needs. Any suggestions?

    Symphony features aren't improving, keying and masking issues are not on the MC shortlist and we already have DS, so why the heck should we invest in a dying product?

    If I'm wrong and Symphony has a bright future, why doesn't Avid say so? Smile

     

     

    Symphony Nitris DX • MC Adrenaline DNxcel 5.5 • DaVinci Resolve • VirtualDub :) [view my complete system specs]

    E D I T   D U D E S

    Independent Post Production Services

    Malmö - SWEDEN

    www.editdudes.com

  • Thu, Apr 22 2010 1:30 PM In reply to

    • Neil J
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    Re: Symphony - In desperate need of some TLC

    editdudes:

    Any suggestions?

    Symphony features aren't improving, keying and masking issues are not on the MC shortlist and we already have DS, so why the heck should we invest in a dying product?

    Suggestions? Hell no!

    I would be afraid they didn't improve in 2 years and you would come get me...

    Super Angry

  • Thu, Apr 22 2010 1:37 PM In reply to

    • editdudes
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    Re: Symphony - In desperate need of some TLC

    Neil J:

    Suggestions? Hell no!

    I would be afraid they didn't improve in 2 years and you would come get me...

    Super Angry

    Pretty funny!

    So it's safe to assume you're fine with the current Symphony development then?  Stick out tongue

     

     

    Symphony Nitris DX • MC Adrenaline DNxcel 5.5 • DaVinci Resolve • VirtualDub :) [view my complete system specs]

    E D I T   D U D E S

    Independent Post Production Services

    Malmö - SWEDEN

    www.editdudes.com

  • Thu, Apr 22 2010 1:40 PM In reply to

    • Neil J
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    Re: Symphony - In desperate need of some TLC

    editdudes:

     

    So it's safe to assume you're fine with the current Symphony development then?  Stick out tongue

     

     

    Eh, Mr Dudes did you read any of my other posts?

    Lighten up man.

  • Thu, Apr 22 2010 2:12 PM In reply to

    • switthaus
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    Re: Symphony - In desperate need of some TLC

    editdudes:
    I have never suggested or implied that anything should be removed from either product, and I find your question questionable not to say stupid. Please rethink or rephrase.

    from your post: "This reasoning is nothing but ridiculous since we've obviously chosen to invest our hard eaned cash in a product that is supposed to be superior to MC in most aspects."

    So, I ask the question again:  What/how do you separate the two products?  What do you leave out of MC (far larger user base) that you put in Symphony?  What do you take from DS?  It just is not going to work.

    I can understand your frustration in investing your "hard earned cash", but this happens in our business.  Make the money on your system and move on.  There are many many people in the same boat.

     

    sw

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

  • Thu, Apr 22 2010 2:45 PM In reply to

    • editdudes
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    Re: Symphony - In desperate need of some TLC

    switthaus:

    What/how do you separate the two products?  What do you leave out of MC (far larger user base) that you put in Symphony? 

    That is a fair question. Most logical would be to have only ONE mc product, and offer advanced finishing tools as an option (or possibly a few separate modules)

    The option should contain a full fledged color correction module with most of the bells and whistles that DaVinci and others offer, enhanced keying tools, universal mastering and possibly more stuff that mc doesn't have today and most people have limited need for anyway.

    What do you take from DS?  It just is not going to work.

    Nothing much that hasn't already been taken from it. DS is still a very different product from MC and is extremely capable, but Avid's Marketing Dept doesn't seem to know it exists... 

    Can you explain why Avid's only possible option is to become a one trick pony?

     

     

    Symphony Nitris DX • MC Adrenaline DNxcel 5.5 • DaVinci Resolve • VirtualDub :) [view my complete system specs]

    E D I T   D U D E S

    Independent Post Production Services

    Malmö - SWEDEN

    www.editdudes.com

  • Thu, Apr 22 2010 2:48 PM In reply to

    • editdudes
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    Re: Symphony - In desperate need of some TLC

    Neil J:

    Eh, Mr Dudes did you read any of my other posts?

    Lighten up man.

    That I did, and thus the smiley.

     

     

     

    Symphony Nitris DX • MC Adrenaline DNxcel 5.5 • DaVinci Resolve • VirtualDub :) [view my complete system specs]

    E D I T   D U D E S

    Independent Post Production Services

    Malmö - SWEDEN

    www.editdudes.com

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