Latest post Fri, Aug 13 2010 8:48 AM by Jeroen van Eekeres. 51 replies.
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  • Mon, Feb 22 2010 8:44 PM In reply to

    Re: One year has past...

    switthaus:
    I will hire the artist over operator everytime.
    Precisely.

    I would be suprised if Piccaso was not well aware of the techniques used by most of the great masters before him. To me artists have restless enquiring minds. They explore the options artistically along with any techniques that allow them more artistic freedom.  Information is soaked up like a sponge.  They dont learn like parrots. They challenge their teachers and research any answer given to them. They do not learn like parrots and IMO they dont exhibit blank stares.

     

  • Mon, Feb 22 2010 8:57 PM In reply to

    • switthaus
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    Re: One year has past...

    AndrewAction:
    They explore the options artistically along with any techniques that allow them more artistic freedom.

    Yep, and this is why Avid has to let this younger crowd of artists know that there are other tools out there to explore.  Up until recently Avid has not done a very good job at this at all.  Thats a big part of marketing: letting the "artists" know there is another "brush" out there to try and why it can improve their "art".

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

  • Mon, Feb 22 2010 9:19 PM In reply to

    Re: One year has past...

    switthaus:
    Thats a big part of marketing: letting the "artists" know there is another "brush" out there to try and why it can improve their "art".

    There's a car dealership (actually not too far from Tewksbury) whose slogan is "Shop Us Last"  They encourage prospective customers to come to them after they've dealt with the others to see the difference in the experience.  I've always thought that is an excellent strategy.

    Avid should set up workshops focusing on feature sets, have an FCP system setup with someone who is proficient with say XDCam workflow operating it, then showcase the Avid workflow with the same feature.  Take it to the streets (and especially schools) Then let the audience/students vote on which one seems more practical/efficient etc.  

    All sorts of common workflows could be simulated in such an exposition.  Mix and Match, effects, titling etc.  If you break it down to core components, the value of one over the other should rise to the top.  Or at minimum, it could open some eyes to the idea of "using the best tool for the job at the given time" vs. simply being a loyalist.  

    If Avid's overall mantra is a better value for more cost, then it really needs to prove that.  

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Mon, Feb 22 2010 10:56 PM In reply to

    Re: One year has past...

    Here, on the website of one of our current Forum users, Benjamin Hershleder, are some good examples of the kind of web visibility Avid needs to achieve on it's home page and placing ads on other related websites not their own.

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Mon, Feb 22 2010 11:37 PM In reply to

    • DiskTech
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    • Canberra, Australia
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    Re: One year has past...

    Larry, Todd, please feel free to move this to another forum section if this post shouldn't be here, but I just have to say....

    Even now, the opening page of the Avid web site appears inconsistant.... maybe by accident, maybe by design. 

    Certainly the "slider" is a nice visual cue, but it's not particularly functional.... The mouse pointer changes to indicate the "hot" areas, but nothing happens when you click on them.... you need to be right over one of the url's for anything to happen... What the frack? I would have thought that - based on the visual cues given - if the mouse pointer is in the "Avid Video" section that clicking anywhere in that box would show me "the products, solutions and customers" that are going to make me want to buy these products.... Having to click on a specific url makes the whole sliding bar sort of pointless (no pun intended)... I wouldn't be making the final payment to the web developer until this is taken care of...

    ....and the movie shown in the video section is so "last year's news" that it isn't funny!!.... The visual splash screens need to be ahead of the curve, not behind it... The opportunity of riding the "Avatar" wave has been and gone.. missed it totally. Toy Story 3 should be up there NOW.... Get the people excited about what these products are being used to create!!! It's Avid's BIGGEST selling point.. (would someone PLEASE get these guys a book on marketing!!).

    ....I don't want to turn this into a "pick apart the Avid website".... It's just that it's often the little things in the user experience that will either keep prospective customers on your site, or drive them away... When users get frustrated, they click away... that's all I'm saying...

    Roger DiskTech Digital Canberra, Australia
  • Tue, Feb 23 2010 1:16 AM In reply to

    • NICKB
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    Re: One year has past...

    The thing i am having trouble understanding is why people place such high value on 'hype' marketing and fancy websites, it is the actual editing product that is the key to success.

    Media Composer does not need to be sold like a consumer item, it is a proven professional tool and it is the real world benefits of using it that need to be promoted.

  • Tue, Feb 23 2010 1:42 AM In reply to

    • switthaus
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    Re: One year has past...

    DiskTech:
    The opportunity of riding the "Avatar" wave has been and gone.. missed it totally. Toy Story 3 should be up there NOW.... Get the people excited about what these products are being used to create!!! It's Avid's BIGGEST selling point.. (would someone PLEASE get these guys a book on marketing!!).

    OK, but what does marketing like this have ANYTHING to do with the average editor out there?  Avid has been doing this "look how big we are in Hollywood" marketing for a while now and it has not worked.   I've used Avid products almost since they hit the market and not once did I care that a hit movie was cut on it.  The product worked for me and my clients (spots and other short form with the odd documentary mixed in) and that was that.  Many really don't care that Avatar, Toy Story or Ellen are cut on Avids...it just does not relate to the average workflow.  A nice sidebar, maybe, but not the focus of the marketing message.

    So while Avid focused on movies, FCP and Premiere started gobbling up the exploding visual communications market, which has put Avid in the position today to try and get traction with the emerging editor market and try to get people to switch BACK to Avid (like the Robin Buday story, which was really not that much of a switcher story after all).

    Overall, Avid is a better product, but its brand message is confused and its marketing has not worked well at all (it should be noted that a new head of marketing was brought on board recently, so perhaps we will see some changes).  Somehow, the company needs to make "Avid" the default answer when an editor is thinking of NLE's.

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

  • Tue, Feb 23 2010 7:58 AM In reply to

    • DiskTech
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    • Joined on Fri, Nov 4 2005
    • Canberra, Australia
    • Posts 73
    • Points 1,075

    Re: One year has past...

    Very true, Scott, but Avid needs to draw numbers from the low and medium market... The high-end already knows that Avid is there and what it's capabilities are... Yes, Avid needs to address the high-end, but not to the point of preaching to the converted. I hate to say it but the low to mid market seems to easily lured by bright & shiny objects..... Sure, they're not going to be cutting the next Avatar or Toy Story, but they do want that "me too" factor of using the same gear as the "big boys"... That's the basis of the "whole" capaign of the 'kool-aid fruit kompany' It's the whole "I'm cool because I use the same editor as James Cameron.." that will generate the buzz, the recognition and ultimately the sales...

    Regarding the fact that it doesn't worry you whether an Avid was used to cut Avatar or not, not everyone out there is as knowledgable regarding NLE's as you or I, and so the fact that it was used is still likely to make an impression... The whole point is to utilise the rub-off effect created by the Hollywood boys, but to also highlight that the "best editor" is accessible and affordable by everyone... It's this area of "accessability" that the current marketing strategy fails to highlight...... There was a time when the word "Avid" was used as a synonym for a high-quality / high-end editing system... That 'definition' been lost over the past few years. They need to get that 'buzz word' back...

    Still, based on the improvements we've seen in MC up to the current version, the fact that Avatar was cut on V2.8 still impresses the hell out of me! Big Smile

    R

    Roger DiskTech Digital Canberra, Australia
  • Tue, Feb 23 2010 8:19 AM In reply to

    • DiskTech
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    Re: One year has past...

    NICKB:

    The thing i am having trouble understanding is why people place such high value on 'hype' marketing and fancy websites, it is the actual editing product that is the key to success.

    Media Composer does not need to be sold like a consumer item, it is a proven professional tool and it is the real world benefits of using it that need to be promoted.

    ...but haven't they been doing that, Nick? ...and Avid's market-share has been eroded from under their feet almost to the point of where you are the odd-one-out if you do use Avid..... Perhaps we should go over to the Apple site and tell them that their FCP marketing sux... (that'll show 'em, huh?). The whole point is to create awareness and sales, not a warm and fuzzy feeling for all of us that may already use Avid's products...

    In any case, NAB should be interesting... I get the impression that a lot of people - from the highest of the high to the lowest of the low - will take direction from how Avid appears to present itself in relation to the whole spectrum of multi-platform content creation technologies, or if it will still remain stead-fast in the broadcast and cinema markets... April's not that far away.... Out of interest, does anyone know if Avid intent to post anything from NAB on any of the video sites such as you-tube?? It'd be nice for their loyal followers who can't make the 15hr flight to actually see a little of what's making news... :)

    Roger DiskTech Digital Canberra, Australia
  • Tue, Feb 23 2010 11:29 AM In reply to

    • NICKB
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    Re: One year has past...

    I bet 80% of FCP edit sessions do not make economic sense even the paid ones, the economic recession / depression will shake a lot of this work out.

    I predict we are at the start of a new wave and trying to sell product to the old wave maybe a mistake.

    *The old wave is the last 5-7 years of the rise of cheap editing and media production that has no economic value.

     

  • Tue, Feb 23 2010 12:11 PM In reply to

    • switthaus
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    Re: One year has past...

    DiskTech:
    There was a time when the word "Avid" was used as a synonym for a high-quality / high-end editing system

    You are right.  Even better, there was a time when clients did not need just "edit time".  They called to book "Avid time".  The produce had become the "Kleenex" or "Xerox" of edting systems.  The buzz was there and there was no question what suite they wanted.  Nowadays, my agency clients don't know or care what system I use.  They see their spot on the big screen on the wall and thats all that matters.

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

  • Tue, Feb 23 2010 12:22 PM In reply to

    • switthaus
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    Re: One year has past...

    NICKB:
    I bet 80% of FCP edit sessions do not make economic sense even the paid ones, the economic recession / depression will shake a lot of this work out.

    Nick, you need to get out more.  What about jobs done on a system with MC Soft only, a low cost editing solution? Do they make sense?  Man, that statement is a "head shaker".

    NICKB:
    *The old wave is the last 5-7 years of the rise of cheap editing and media production that has no economic value.

    So do you think clients are suddenly going to say "gee, its time we start paying more for our gear, production and post-production"?  C'mon, really?    What we can hope for as editors  is as the recession eases, there will be MORE projects out there, lower cost or not.

    That low cost, fast turnaround "genie" is out of the bottle and will never go back in.  Many clients look at Red workflow as a "low cost" option to film!  Avid does not have a future if it sticks it's head in the sand and waits around for your theory to come true.  The company needs to adapt and become more nimble to be proactive to the rapidly changing environment.  Remember, it's not Apple's fault that Avid is having tough times and going through restructuring.  Avid did this to itself.

     

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

  • Tue, Feb 23 2010 2:41 PM In reply to

    • riojapj
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    Re: One year has past...

    (Earl's Court BVE)

     

    NICKB:

    No Avid DS and no sign of those expensive Avid DX box's or Symphony make of that what you will!

    To be fair to Avid, DS was indeed at BVE this year, at least on the Tuesday when I attended. Just for the record and any exasperated DS users out there...

     

     

    PJ

    MC 8.10.0 Mac Pro (late 2013) CPU - 3 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon E5 RAM - 64GB DDR3 GFX - AMD FirePro D700 6GB (x2) [view my complete system specs]

    Paul

  • Tue, Feb 23 2010 2:42 PM In reply to

    • NICKB
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    Re: One year has past...

    Lets take someone who edits a drama that is published as web episodes on the internet, they edit on FCP on low pay the problem is that series made no money it was paid for by investors who have lost money so will not back another web series, result that FCP editor will be looking for a new job as his last job was not economically viable.

    If your employer is making a loss making video's what you are doing has no economic value and at some point the plug will be pulled.

    We have seen a massive growth in video production over the last 10 years it was a bubble only 20% of the work made economic sense, mainly network TV, Hollywood films, and mid to high end corporate. the rest lost money, Avid's strength is that it dominates the top 20%. 

    I predict a massive shake out of low cost video production done on very suspect business models.

  • Tue, Feb 23 2010 2:56 PM In reply to

    • switthaus
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
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    Re: One year has past...

    NICKB:

    Lets take someone who edits a drama that is published as web episodes on the internet, they edit on FCP on low pay the problem is that series made no money it was paid for by investors who have lost money so will not back another web series, result that FCP editor will be looking for a new job as his last job was not economically viable.

    If your employer is making a loss making video's what you are doing has no economic value and at some point the plug will be pulled.

    We have seen a massive growth in video production over the last 10 years it was a bubble only 20% of the work made economic sense, mainly network TV, Hollywood films, and mid to high end corporate. the rest lost money, Avid's strength is that it dominates the top 20%. 

    I predict a massive shake out of low cost video production done on very suspect business models.

    Replace "FCP" in this post with "Avid" and the result is the same.

     

     

     

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

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