Latest post Sat, Oct 23 2010 9:01 AM by jwrl. 61 replies.
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  • Sun, Jan 10 2010 6:13 PM In reply to

    • AH2010
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    Re: AVID VS FCP

     

    Jayanta:

    Kenton.VanNatten:

    The best thing that these students can do is learn to edit and not worry about which tool they have available to them. 

    Yes I am glad that I learned Adobe Premier 6 to specificaly to Edit and Loop Audio because at that time it was (and still now) more efficiant at editing and looping Audio. Otherwise I woud not have been an Editor.

     

     

     

    I agree.  I used Avid Newscutter, MC, 3d, FX....along with Adobe After Effects, Photoshop, Premiere and Sony Vegas.  Will like to get to Final Cut, but those damn Macs are so expensive...well at least the one I want...lol

     

  • Sun, Jan 10 2010 7:31 PM In reply to

    • berga
    • Top 50 Contributor
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    Re: AVID VS FCP

    Randall L Rike:

    Many FCP presentations start with a statement that more units of FCP are sold per year than Avid.  They throw out some stats to back that up.

    "... According to a 2007 SCRI study, Final Cut made up 49% of the US professional editing market, with Avid at 22% ..."*

    * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Cut_Pro

    If you press the Apple staff for an explanation, they'll back down to "number if units sold", as compared to true market share.

    If you go to the website of the company that generated the stats that Apple quotes, the source data is not avilable, at least for free.  You can buy the source data.  Hmmm.

    http://www.scri.com/

    Meanwhile, the question I suppose we as Avid enthusiasts really want to know, is which product will generate the most income for us, and for how long.  As stated previously, as a professional editor, you must know both.  Just as you also need to know Photoshop, After Effects, etc.

    What I'd like to see is a weighted result, showing Avid seats x revenue generated vs FCP seats x revenue  generated.  My guess is that Avid is generating more "profitable" revenue per year than FCP.

    It is all the way down to how You define professional market. Is it the market for professional products, of is it equipment bougth by people who make a living of using the equipmentys?

    Bu what surprice me is that the figuers make up to 71 per cent and leave 29 per cetn for the rest. I thougt that every studio have at least one license of Adobe Premiere which they got then they bougth After Effects and Photoshop. But, these types of figures is difficult to understand because of the resereach institute sells them, which they have to do if will make the surveiw.

    HP xw4600, 3.2Mhz, 4Gb RAM, Mojo. 500GB SATA Bootdrive, 3x500GB internal raid-0 for video, Windows 7 Pro Swedish, MC7 with Symphony option, Blackmagic... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jan 10 2010 9:32 PM In reply to

    Re: AVID VS FCP

    NICKB:

    90% of student FCP editors will never make a living using it and will give up so who cares it's all a fad anyway!

    Avid need to touch the 10% who will become the pro editors of tomorrow.

    It's not even just a matter of students, most of whom don't pay for software anyway. If Avid only wants to sell to professional production houses and experienced freelancers, that's fine. But how is that going to pay the company's bills? It worked when systems cost orders of magnitude more than they do today.

    Avid's current product line is saying that the company wants to be smaller and only service the high end. But the hole in Avid's lineup seems to be precisely where all the growth in the market is taking place. So I'm skeptical that an "ingore the middle and below" strategy will work.

    Pinnacle is a wild card in all this. Perhaps Studio will be used as a way to hook people onto Avid and move them up the food chain to more professional products.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Sun, Jan 10 2010 9:41 PM In reply to

    Re: AVID VS FCP

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    Pinnacle is a wild card in all this. Perhaps Studio will be used as a way to hook people onto Avid and move them up the food chain to more professional products.

    I really don't see that happening all to often. 

    Imagine if Apple were to buy Premiere Elements and hope that users of Premiere Elements would migrate up to FCP.  They are two different products.  There is no similarity at all between Studio and MC the only thing they share is the Avid logo. 

    Sure there are some Studio users who have moved to MC, but as Douglas often points out - those that are familiar with Studio may be lost/confused in MC.  Consider this thread.

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Sun, Jan 10 2010 10:00 PM In reply to

    • NICKB
    • Top 100 Contributor
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    Re: AVID VS FCP

    Avid are not really a consumer software company so i do not see their future making cheap editing solutions.

    In the longer term they may even re-invent the company towards a new market away from editing.

    Or they may just become a smaller company to survive and become profitable again in a niche market.

     

    Lets face it you would not invest your own money in a company that makes editing products in 2010 like you might of in 1990

  • Sun, Jan 10 2010 10:14 PM In reply to

    Re: AVID VS FCP

    I edit on Avid.  I own Apple stock.  It split twice since I first bought it in 1996.  I'm hoping it splits again.

    Symphony 8.8.x w/Avid Nitris DX, HP z420, Windows 10, QT v7.7.x, Hexa Core 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM, nVidia Quadro Series 2000 w/353.82. 2TB Boot, 2 x 3TB internal... [view my complete system specs]

    "There are few technological barriers.  You can fix almost anything if you throw enough money at it."
    *******************************
    Randall L. Rike, ACI, ACSR Mac*Win*Unity*ISIS*DS
    Systems Engineer @ BET Networks [a Viacom company]
    (wwld)

  • Sun, Aug 8 2010 3:27 PM In reply to

    • lasereye
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    Re: AVID VS FCP

    OBSERVATION: Avid, who owns Pinnacle and the Studio product is not likely to take Studio anywhere near to Avid's cash cow.  Why do you think Avid bought Pinnacle – to get at Liquid and kill it?  It seems it was too much bang for the buck and it made Avid's high-end software with associated expensive peripheral add-ons look over priced and unnecessary.  Avid is in trouble and they're being closed in from all sides.  They seem to be moving in the wrong direction, morphing into the old dinosaur that is unable to adapt to a new technological and economic paradyne which is more productive and cost effective.  Avid reminds me of GM and their first electric car.  Avid had the right vehicle for the new marketplace but performed a bait-and-switch on Liquid users to a legacy system whose days seem to be numbered in a desperate attempt to expand its user base.  Let's  see where Avid is 5 years from now.  True competition is a good thing – trying to eat your competition takes a lot of valuable energy which can be bad thing - especially when you bite yourself in the ass.  Now all Avid needs to do is to keep buying off its competition to magically transform into another to-big-to-fail and go for government bailouts.

  • Sun, Aug 8 2010 3:56 PM In reply to

    • Solopost
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    Re: AVID VS FCP

    HERE is the 2009 ACE equipment survey.

    Cliffnote: Avid hold a 76% over FCP 19% (down from 21% in 2008).

    SYS# 1- MC6.5 Mac Pro 2xQuad-Core Intel 3.2Ghz 18Gb Ram OS 10.7.5 2Tb storage (mixed SATA/1394/1394b) SYS# 2- MC6.5 Macbook Pro 2.8Ghz (mid-2009) 4Gb... [view my complete system specs]

    My Two Cents .02
    Kent Brockman

  • Sun, Aug 8 2010 11:44 PM In reply to

    • jadakin
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    Re: AVID VS FCP

    lasereye:

    OBSERVATION: Avid, who owns Pinnacle and the Studio product is not likely to take Studio anywhere near to Avid's cash cow.  Why do you think Avid bought Pinnacle – to get at Liquid and kill it?  It seems it was too much bang for the buck and it made Avid's high-end software with associated expensive peripheral add-ons look over priced and unnecessary.  Avid is in trouble and they're being closed in from all sides.  They seem to be moving in the wrong direction, morphing into the old dinosaur that is unable to adapt to a new technological and economic paradyne which is more productive and cost effective.  Avid reminds me of GM and their first electric car.  Avid had the right vehicle for the new marketplace but performed a bait-and-switch on Liquid users to a legacy system whose days seem to be numbered in a desperate attempt to expand its user base.  Let's  see where Avid is 5 years from now.  True competition is a good thing – trying to eat your competition takes a lot of valuable energy which can be bad thing - especially when you bite yourself in the ass.  Now all Avid needs to do is to keep buying off its competition to magically transform into another to-big-to-fail and go for government bailouts.

    You're basically saying that Avid should of kept Liquid and have Liquid and MC compete against each other.  You're also saying that Liquid is so awesome that the awesomeness of awesome can't compare to Grandpa MC.  I have my issues with the company also.  I feel on certain things 'they don't get it.'  Hardware, support structure, and requirements make for long-term difficult decisions.  The company was arrogant.  They admitted it with the whole 'new thinking' rebrand.  MC5 is buggy as hell. It is turning into a buggy hybrid. 

    But look at what they created.  Basically a FCP style editor that has an automatic and manual setting.  I believe it's flash that opens into two different modes based on what Action Script you choose right?  I feel that this would of been a better move for Avid.  Allow you to create your system settings based on what interface you want to use.  Or maybe two separate products sold?  One with the smart tools and one without. 

    On top of all this Avid did a few things right with MC5.  Three words Matrox, AMA, Pro-Tools.  Third party hardware support (although it's one box and output only), Native linking to formats FCP cult would kill to be able to do, and RTAS - realtime audio plugins that FCP wishes it could begin to hope for.  Avid will probably start incorperating the best of Liquid into MC too.  I feel it's a matter of time because they know the clock is ticking and I'm sure they're sick of hearing "Isn't FCP just as good and cheaper?", as much as we are.

    Oh and to comment on something someone said way back in January.  Freelance editors work on Avid also.  In fact most shows that air on Cable/Network use Freelancers and they use Avid.  I am one of those Freelancers and I get work non-stop.  FCP is used by Mac Heads whom hate anything not Apple.  FCP is used for weddings, Local Commercials, and TONS of internet video sites.  These people pay less across the board.  If you want a job that makes a lot of money, be good in Avid - be damn good.  You'll have work.

     

    HPZ800 2.9 ghz dual quad, 4TB raid 0, MX02 Mini, MC5.0.3, 12gb Ram, Nvidia FX4800, trying out WD External 3.0 USB 1TB, W7 prof [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Aug 9 2010 1:48 AM In reply to

    • Geoffs
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    Re: AVID VS FCP

    I agree with most of the comments addressing the OP. I work in TV broadcast and we use AVID. I have worked for small companies doing corporate videos, weddings, website videos and training videos and we used FCP and Premiere.

    I personally own a copy of MC5 for my freelance work, which pays well. I also agree that you need to know multiple programs these days. I can easily edit on MC, FCP and Premiere and it has been hugely beneficial to me to have a solid knowledge of 3D and compositing programs. In TV land you normally have a very specific role, but as a freelancer you need to be very flexible and capable in a lot of different areas.

    In the end, my preference is to use MC and while I'm not thrilled with some of the changes in MC5, it is still, very easily, my tool of choice. I could have easily purchased FCP for my own personal use, but chose to invest nearly twice as much in AVID because for me, it provides a much better result. It’s much more reliable and I can use it on my PC or MAC.

    For what it’s worth, I think if you are going to be a successful editor, as in get yourself some paid work, you need to feel at home equally on MAC and PC. It’s the way of the world. I see no point in being loyal to a platform or a piece of software. As was previously mentioned, being a good editor is not about what software you use, it’s about knowing how to edit. The software is just a tool.

    Windows 8.1 Professional 64bit i7 4600K 3.2 32 gig-o-ram GTX TITAN Video Card 17" Macbook Pro i7 8 gig-o-ram [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Aug 9 2010 1:59 AM In reply to

    • Joe M
    • Top 150 Contributor
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    Re: AVID VS FCP

    luca.mg:

    Cracked copies of FinalCut have been available for download over the P2P networks ever since it came out, and therefore the software is widespread among dishonest people and pennyless students; Apple IMO didn't seriously fight the crackers because the company had more to gain by having a broad user base than by fighting piracy, and, as a matter of fact, this "policy", along with fair pricing for the legal purchaser, made it possible for FinalCut to became widely adopted, to what extent, that I don't know; add Apple's great marketing skills to the mix and You'll see why students have the perception of FC being the leading product, but I would say that FC is the low budget tool while Avid is the high end one, at least at the moment: if Avid doesn't change its crazy pricing policy, especially with regards to hardware, the company will squeeze the most money it can out of its existing customers tonight and kill itself tomorrow morning, period; this is the picture You'll get in the real world as sales do not equal the installed base, so to speak. With the dropping of the dongle Avid may find itself in the same shoes as Apple... On the editing side I find Avid sharp and accurate while FC is messy and fuzzy; moreover, FC is kind of a swiss army knife doing almost everything You can think of, but the outcome is not always of good quality, while Avid is less flexible but it does what it does at top quality. Facing reality: if I was a student I would learn both systems, being aware that due to the above mentioned "commercial practicies" I can expect a lot of underpaid FinalCut jobs or not as many fairly paid Avid jobs; wether to go for quantity or quality, or low wages vs good wages, it is a matter of personal opininion and the coincidences of life.

     

    Interesting Piracy concept...

    ...but, no one really knows how much that helped or hurt Apple... but, it probably did do something about expanding FCP's awareness points.

    At any rate, FCP and it's market share is probably more correllated to one thing - PRICE.  In fact, if it had been a Win base application it could have done even more damage to it's competitors market share.

    When you look at the price advantage of Apple's FCP, you will probably not notice what is off the editing application radar.  That which is off the radar is that FCP is but one of many Apple products. 

    When you look at Apples profits from a bigger picture, you can easily see how they can afford to reduce profit margins on their editing application when you have Mac's, Ipod's, Iphones, etc. to pull up the slack in sales/profits.

    Apple's Marketing skills are definately a plus... especially when you add look at the price advantage... but, I also think some missteps by AVID also help Apple look better than they probably should have been credit.

    In fact, when you look at Adobe Production Package as well... if they had a descent editing software... they could easily become the next big competitor to Apple and AVID.  While Edius and Vega have die hard users... and, for a good reason... those editing applications are stable and work well at a price that is very reasonable.  Again,... IMHO it is price that drives these markets if you have a stable application that works with the broadest base computer systems. 

    FCP or AVID... is less of a big choice to make... it's probably more about... Editing well vs. Editing poorly... no matter the application anyone chooses.

    WinXP,ASUS W6T6 WS Rev.,Intel i7 3.2Ghz8X32,6G Corsair DDR3(low lat.),Quatro FX 3800(190.38),Adaptec 5405 RAID 0 SAS-2 Stripes 2x15K RPM Fujitsu 300G ea... [view my complete system specs]

    .

  • Mon, Aug 9 2010 2:02 AM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
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    Re: AVID VS FCP

    I frequently answer variations of this question. Some things to consider.

    First of all, an ACE survey (especially one with a really small sample) is pretty irrelevant in the world at large (outside of NY or LA). Second thing to consider is that Apple's Final Cut numbers are based on total sales of all unique licenses of all versions (from 1.0 onward) of FCP, FCE and FCS combined. Third, the film/video/broadcast industries have a heavy percentage of Macs, but still not more than 50%. By definition, at least 50% wouldn't be Final Cut. Obviously, the PCs wouldn't all be Avid, either.

    When you look at all of these issues and weed out prosumer and amateur use, I'd venture to guess that the FCP/MC split is probably even among people who make their living as editors. I find that in most markets around the US, broadcasters tend to be Avid over FCP (at least in the news department), while many small shops are FCP.

    Shops that tend to consider themselves as edit boutiques or edit facilities have a higher percentage of Avid than shops which are mainly production companies or multi-media companies, who happen to edit their own stuff. These companies tend to be FCP. If you look at film productions, then mainstream shops and editors tend to be Avid, while indie producers (who often cut their own films) are heavily FCP.

    The bottom line for students is that it is essential for them to know Media Composer, FCP, After Effects, Photoshop, compression basics and DVD authoring basics. Avid has a very aggressive academic pricing strategy, so right now is the best time for them to invest in Avid tools if they like.

    - Oliver

     

  • Tue, Oct 19 2010 8:35 PM In reply to

    • jeando
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    Re: AVID VS FCP

    Just a quick note from an old avid editor (for corporate video mainly).

    I was a proud owner of an ABVB system then Avid meridien during 12 years.

    With the HD coming up I want to move to HD editing facility and download MC5 test...

    I've been sad to see that 7 years after my meridien version not so much changes, and worth the arrival of "marquee" a "new" editing title which is just a nightmare.

    SO I choose to test FCP... and this is just amazing how far they are comparing to Avid system, and I was just amazed by the simplicity of using "motion" to create animated title... and that for 3 times less the price of Avid !

    I'm not working for apple, but I can say that I'm amazed everyday of the feature they have implemented comparing to MC5.

    In MC5 I thought that I was going to have new effects... and I discovered the same old and cheap effects that were in my old version...

    So, this is my experience... sorry for Avid people but they should really see what the competitors have done instead of thinking that they are the best...

  • Tue, Oct 19 2010 8:48 PM In reply to

    Re: AVID VS FCP

    I read the opposite from FCP angry users for not having some of MC5 features.

    But its true that (from what I see not tested) from FX side FCP is better.

     

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    Corsair RM750X|Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)|i7 2600K@4.4|Corsair 32G DDR3|PNY Quadro P2000(442.92)|Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB|2x1TB Crucial MX500@RAID 0|2x500GB Mushkin SSD@RAID 0|LG BH16NS40|W10 Pro 64bit|Media Composer Software 2020.6 with Symphony Option on Dongle|2xHP 22'' Monitors|M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

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  • Tue, Oct 19 2010 9:33 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
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    Re: AVID VS FCP

    The trial version does not include Boris Continuum Complete and AvidFX....

    Symphony 20.06, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

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