Latest post Fri, Aug 7 2009 5:21 PM by Randall L. Rike. 11 replies.
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  • Tue, Aug 4 2009 12:58 AM

    • Maureen
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    Symphony Nitris p2 workflow (NO DX upgrade)

    My facility currently has two Avid Symphony Nirtis's.  We will be upgrading to media composer DX in the near future but haven't yet.  A short project has been brought in that was shot on P2.  My question is what is the appropriate workflow to work with this format on a Symphony Nitris?  I believe it can be done if we transcode but my online editor and engineer are arguing whether it's possible to do it without the DX upgrade.  Please help!

     

    Thanks in advance!

  • Tue, Aug 4 2009 1:24 AM In reply to

    Re: Symphony Nitris p2 workflow (NO DX upgrade)

    You don't need to Transcode, unless you really want to change the resolution.  The P2 media is MXF that Avid can work with directly.  If you're on SN prior to v3.5, you use File > Import P2 > Clips to Bin and then File > Import P2 > Media.  Thsi will populate a Bin with Master Clips and copy the media to your Avid media storage.  It's basically a Consolidate.  If you're on v3.5, you use File > Link to AMA Volumes.  Point to the P2 folder structure and the media will be linked and ready to edit.  No copy/consolidate required.  Very cool!  This also will populate a Bin with Master Clips.

    Symphony 8.8.x w/Avid Nitris DX, HP z420, Windows 10, QT v7.7.x, Hexa Core 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM, nVidia Quadro Series 2000 w/353.82. 2TB Boot, 2 x 3TB internal... [view my complete system specs]

    "There are few technological barriers.  You can fix almost anything if you throw enough money at it."
    *******************************
    Randall L. Rike, ACI, ACSR Mac*Win*Unity*ISIS*DS
    Systems Engineer @ BET Networks [a Viacom company]
    (wwld)

  • Tue, Aug 4 2009 1:48 AM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Symphony Nitris p2 workflow (NO DX upgrade)

    Totally agree with Randy.  But just to make sure, what version Symphony are you on?  Older versions might have slighty different issues.

    I know that the method he outlined work back to at least 1.8.3.

    Jef

     

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." | OS 10.11.x - various MacPro Towers - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

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    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Tue, Aug 4 2009 6:32 AM In reply to

    Re: Symphony Nitris p2 workflow (NO DX upgrade)

    Although Randy is not wrong, I slightly disagree.

    Classic Nitris does not actively support thin raster (1440 rather than 1920). That means that if you stay in native P2 (assuming DVCPROHD, not DV25), you will put the burden of thin raster processing on the CPU/GPU. Symphonies on older CPU's might not always cope with that.

    In the early days of Symphony Nitris 3.x, it was recommended to transcode to a full raster codec, to improve performance.

    So when I had a (fairly large) P2-based project last year, on SN 3.x, I used the "classic" way to import P2 clips, then, instead of "Import P2 Media" I chose to consolidate the clips into the system, at DNxHD120.

    That worked just fine. The classic Nitris has a hardware DNxHD codec, so performance with DNxHD is likely to be much smoother than with something like thin raster DVCPROHD (P2).

    Importing the media straightforward versus a transcode to DNxHD is a very minor difference in importing times (if any).

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Aug 4 2009 9:18 AM In reply to

    • jakeheat
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    Re: Symphony Nitris p2 workflow (NO DX upgrade)

    Job's right.

    I did a P2 project in May, and although everything was smooth at the start, but as soon as my sequence got a little bit complex, my machine really started to slow down.  In retrospect I should have transocoded my media first, and then relinked to the original P2 files once my offline was done.  

    If you're doing a straight Online, then just convert your P2 media to the highest DNxHD codec you can use. 

    Media Composer 2018.9 MacPro 6 core - 32 GB RAM - OS:10.13.6 3.33Ghz iMacs, Macbook Pros. BM, AJA, Matrox After Effects, etc [view my complete system specs]

    @jaketheeditor 

  • Tue, Aug 4 2009 12:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Symphony Nitris p2 workflow (NO DX upgrade)

    jakeheat:
    convert your P2 media to the highest DNxHD codec you can use. 
    Just a thought: since DVPCRO is runs 100 Mbit/s, any DNxHD flavor higher than that should be more than fine. IMHO.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Aug 4 2009 2:05 PM In reply to

    • jakeheat
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    Re: Symphony Nitris p2 workflow (NO DX upgrade)

    As you know lower Avid resolutions have trouble compressing complex images, and as P2 or Sony EX rushes tend to have a fair amount or artifacts and banding, you'll find that the higher the Avid resolution the closer the transcode will be to the original material. Furthermore, assuming this is an Online, the higher you go the better your effects and filters will look.  

     

    Media Composer 2018.9 MacPro 6 core - 32 GB RAM - OS:10.13.6 3.33Ghz iMacs, Macbook Pros. BM, AJA, Matrox After Effects, etc [view my complete system specs]

    @jaketheeditor 

  • Tue, Aug 4 2009 7:16 PM In reply to

    • Maureen
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    Re: Symphony Nitris p2 workflow (NO DX upgrade)

    We have version 1.6.4 and 1.6.7.  Will that workflow still work on our older versions???

     

    Thanks!

  • Tue, Aug 4 2009 7:39 PM In reply to

    Re: Symphony Nitris p2 workflow (NO DX upgrade)

    jakeheat:
    As you know lower Avid resolutions have trouble compressing complex images

    I think that the DNxHD resolutions are quite a bit better than would be expected based on bandwidth figures. I am truely amazed at DNxHD36 for offline. Looks way better than it is entitled to ;-)

    the higher you go the better your effects and filters will look.  

    Agreed, but you could transcode to DNxHD120, yet still do any rendering at DNxHD145x.

    Many ways to Rome. Indeed, if one can spare the storage, why not go for 145x.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Aug 4 2009 7:42 PM In reply to

    Re: Symphony Nitris p2 workflow (NO DX upgrade)

    I think P2 import has improved a great deal with the arrival of version 3. If 1.6.x is what you have, I think I would try to use some smaller MC 3.x system to import (and transcode) the media, then take the media into your 1.6.x system.

    MC 3.5 offers a 14 day full functional trial. You might use it to import the P2 media within those 14 days.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Aug 7 2009 5:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Symphony Nitris p2 workflow (NO DX upgrade)

    "You don't need to Transcode, unless you really want to change the resolution" or drop frames

     

    1.8.4 Read Me

    "Avid Symphony Nitris cannot always play back native DVCPRO HD media without
    dropping frames. This is due to the fact that on playback, the system has to create a version
    of the media at 1920x1080 at full resolution on-the-fly.


    Workaround: Transcode the media to Avid DNxHD or uncompresssed HD for real-time
    playback".

    From my experience you will need to transcode to a DNX resolution when preforming a digital cut.

  • Fri, Aug 7 2009 5:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Symphony Nitris p2 workflow (NO DX upgrade)

    I stand corrected.

    Symphony 8.8.x w/Avid Nitris DX, HP z420, Windows 10, QT v7.7.x, Hexa Core 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM, nVidia Quadro Series 2000 w/353.82. 2TB Boot, 2 x 3TB internal... [view my complete system specs]

    "There are few technological barriers.  You can fix almost anything if you throw enough money at it."
    *******************************
    Randall L. Rike, ACI, ACSR Mac*Win*Unity*ISIS*DS
    Systems Engineer @ BET Networks [a Viacom company]
    (wwld)

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