Latest post Sat, Jun 20 2009 7:06 PM by blafarm. 37 replies.
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  • Sat, Jun 13 2009 2:58 PM

    • editmk
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    Colour Corection

    Please add a master hue wheel and hi/mid/low saturation to Media Composer.

    I know its in Symphony and there needs to be a difference between the two but we really need them in Media Composer.

    HP XW8600 Dual Quad Core 3 Ghz Windows 8 16 Gigs of Ram 24TB of Raid 10 sata storage Media Composer 7 Matrox MX02 Mini [view my complete system specs]

    www.mikegreen.tv

  • Sat, Jun 13 2009 5:12 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
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    Re: Colour Corection

    I'd go further and nuke out Symphony including its features in MC (or nuke MC and only market Symphony (at the cost of MC)): competing with Final Cut, which has everything including the kitchen sink, Avid has to have a fully featured product, and the days of off-line editing on a low end box and on-lining on an high end one have gone.

    Symphony 2018.12.3, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Sun, Jun 14 2009 4:01 PM In reply to

    • editmk
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    Re: Colour Corection

    Yes. You are bang on.

    I mean really how many more features do you get for the extra cost of Symphony software. Some grading stuff, bit of tracking.

    Put all the software together. Then its simple. I will never purchase a symphony personally. Maybe a Nitris DX true but I don't see that symphony is worth the money. Except for to tell clients who don't really understand what it means, that you have one.

    HP XW8600 Dual Quad Core 3 Ghz Windows 8 16 Gigs of Ram 24TB of Raid 10 sata storage Media Composer 7 Matrox MX02 Mini [view my complete system specs]

    www.mikegreen.tv

  • Sun, Jun 14 2009 6:05 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: Colour Corection

    Here we go with the "kill the Symphony" lack of logic again.

     

    First, the Symphony brand is worth extra money in my market. (LA)

     

    Second, source side color correction is a major time saver in my workflow. Doesn't take long for Symphony to justify the extra expense when you color correct all day long every day.

     

    Third, the problem is that Avid stopped innovating for the Symphony 10 years ago. So now it is way behind the curve as the top finishing model. However, instead of killing the line, why not pump up the feature set to justify the extra bucks. And while they're at it, give it 2K and 4:4:4. With a value added hardware set, not just the third party AJA card.

     

    Then they would have a system that they could continue to get top dollar for, while capitalizing on the brand name.

     

    Will that happen? EXTREMELY unlikely. As I see it Avid is just milking the existing user base to buy time. What they do with that time would be speculation and that gets us in trouble here. :-0

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

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  • Sun, Jun 14 2009 6:56 PM In reply to

    • editmk
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    Re: Colour Corection

    Fair point. So they really have 2 options.

    1. Invest in the feature set and make it worth the bucks or..

    2. Kill Symphony by merging the two.

    There is a third though.

    Kill Symphony and put the new feature set in Media Composer and make it unquestionable that Avid Media Composer is better than FCP. This would be my preferred option cause I am getting really sick of defending Avid to FCP users.

     

    HP XW8600 Dual Quad Core 3 Ghz Windows 8 16 Gigs of Ram 24TB of Raid 10 sata storage Media Composer 7 Matrox MX02 Mini [view my complete system specs]

    www.mikegreen.tv

  • Sun, Jun 14 2009 10:24 PM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
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    Re: Colour Corection

    editmk:
    Kill Symphony and put the new feature set in Media Composer and make it unquestionable that Avid Media Composer is better than FCP. This would be my preferred option cause I am getting really sick of defending Avid to FCP users.

    I routinely work both FCP and MC and have spent tons of time grading with Symphony. I would offer that making MC completely into Symphony won't change a single FCP sale into an Avid sale.

    - Oliver

     

  • Mon, Jun 15 2009 6:42 PM In reply to

    • Abeyta
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    Re: Colour Corection

    TCurren:
    Third, the problem is that Avid stopped innovating for the Symphony 10 years ago. So now it is way behind the curve as the top finishing model.

     

    Yes the definition of Finishing has changed dramatically in 10 years. Avid is stretching the Finishing term pretty thin with the Symphony. No native Red, 2k, or 4k support. 12bit color corrections, no Digital Noise Reducers. Lack of integrated CC masking tools, Limited and basic scopes.

    I believe (please correct me if i'm wrong) that the msrp between the MC DX and Symphony DX is around $20k. It won't take long for buyers see the difference between the two is really hard to justify.

    The only differences between the MC and Symphony are 

    Universal Mastering which is the ability to convert from 23p, 24p, 25p timelines(can't the AJA box do this for much cheaper?)

    and the Advanced (but limited as mentioned) Color Corrections.

    The Symphony is also sold as a pre-qualified and configured system but shouldn't Avid and your reseller already provide this service? I don't feel it should be marketed as a feature.

     

    Mac Pro 2013 6 Core 3.5ghz, MC Symphony 8.7, 16GB RAM, D700, OS 10.10.5, Ultrastudio 4K, Pegasus2 R6 12TB [view my complete system specs]

     

    Derrick Abeyta | Blu Pixel

    Phoenix, Arizona

    www.blupixelpost.com

     

  • Mon, Jun 15 2009 7:25 PM In reply to

    • Sam Z
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    Re: Colour Corection

    Yeah, it confused me when the DX line first came out that you can't do 4:4:4 on anything but a DS.  There are a lot of networks out there that want HDCAM-SR but the DX boxes can't seem to do it (which seems odd if there is an AJA card in there).  The only thing I could speculate is that without multiple CPUs and GPU acceleration they could not get the performance needed to do live secondary on these higher end formats.  Now that multiple CPU and GPU acceleration are part of 3.5, maybe we will see something different in Symphony 4.  Maybe a new Dual Link SDI box.  Who knows.

    But I do agree that "Finishing" is a term that has really changed in the past few years.  I think most MC editors are told by their clients that they are "Finishing" the spot.  I would love to send my work to a real color grade, but the clients are barley able to get money for mix these days.  All of this said, I think it's time to readdress "Finishing Tools" across the Avid line.  If you have 3 products your tools should be evenly distributed amongst them.

  • Mon, Jun 15 2009 9:41 PM In reply to

    • NICKB
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    Re: Colour Corection

     

    Avid's key product is Media Composer so that should be given ALL the bells and whistles other wise even more work will go to Final Cut Studio 3 .

    If Avid then lose the 'off-line' market to FCP then that damages Symphony as why would you take an FCP project to an Avid Symphony to finish rather than either finish in a top end FCP suite or a High End grading suite?

    I think a finish these days is less to do with the 'edit system' and more to do with the extra skill by an editor and the support equipment that is needed, like a very high quality monitor, scopes, and a HDCAM SR deck to lay off to.

    The old workflow of the last decade of MC edit to Symphony finish must surely becoming to an end do you not think?

     

     

  • Mon, Jun 15 2009 11:12 PM In reply to

    • Haze
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    Re: Colour Corection

    Question:  What three items are rarely found in a FCP edit suite?

    Answer:

    NICKB:
    a very high quality monitor, scopes, and a HDCAM SR deck

    Regarding CC in Symphony, power windows would be a welcome addition.

    Avid DS 11 | Z800, Symphony 6.5 | HP xw 8600, MC 6.5 | HP Z400, Unity Storage [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jun 15 2009 11:27 PM In reply to

    • NICKB
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    Re: Colour Corection

    'power windows would be a welcome addition.'

     

    Like in Apple Color!

  • Tue, Jun 16 2009 2:36 AM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
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    Re: Colour Corection

    Sam Z:
    DX line first came out that you can't do 4:4:4 on anything but a DS.  There are a lot of networks out there that want HDCAM-SR but the DX boxes can't seem to do it (which seems odd if there is an AJA card in there).

    Sam,

    You can record to HDCAM-SR in 4:2:2. It does not require dual-link. The reason networks are standardizing on SR is because you have more audio tracks. It has little or nothing to do with the video.

    There is no AJA card inside the DX equipment. This is incorrect info. An OEM'ed version of an AJA board is used in the DS only.

    - Oliver

     

  • Tue, Jun 16 2009 8:03 AM In reply to

    Re: Colour Corection

    And I don't think anyone is broadcasting 4:4:4...

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jun 16 2009 8:21 AM In reply to

    Re: Colour Corection

    If you consider hour-long TV dramas "broadcast," then there is 4:4:4 acquisition going. And producers want the option to finish that footage in 4:4:4 before down rezing for delivery.

    For example "ER" shot with the Red (4:4:4) and tried finishing the footage in DNxHD 175x. They had some banding issues and had to go back to the original 4:4:4 .R3D files for some shots.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Tue, Jun 16 2009 11:24 AM In reply to

    • NICKB
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    Re: Colour Corection

    4:4:4 is overkill for 99% of TV work more so in these days of budget cuts.

    The Symphony is not aimed at the ultra high end post production market, it's power is in the 'factory production line' finish of MC edits.

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