Latest post Thu, Jun 4 2009 7:40 PM by riojapj. 31 replies.
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  • Fri, May 29 2009 11:11 PM

    Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    1: Great to see someone at Kirk's level taking an active interest in the issues.

    2: Distinctly saddened to see many/most of the answers refect very strongly (IMO) old Avid thinking. It felt like a platitude followed by a tired justification for the current position.

    3: They left me with an overwhelming feeling that I have heard most of these response's many times before over the years. The response did not light my fire then and amazingly they still dont.

  • Sat, May 30 2009 12:25 AM In reply to

    Re: Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    AndrewAction:
    Distinctly saddened to see many/most of the answers reflect very strongly (IMO) old Avid thinking. It felt like a platitude followed by a tired justification for the current position.

    As much as I wish it were otherwise, I have read Kirk's entire thread of Q and A's and I'm sorry to have to say I completely agree with Andrew's position. I too, was very underwhelmed and disappointed with the responses.

    Sorry Kirk, but with all due respect I am not impressed. Your answers for the most part, while very well intentioned, are far too vague and restricted by company policy and regulations to be truly effective communiques.

     

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Sat, May 30 2009 1:07 AM In reply to

    • jwrl
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    Re: Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    I'm underimpressed too, and take the response to the dongle issue to read "We're killing the dongle regardless, and you better like it."  Great new thinking, Avid.

    I'm wondering what the final straw (should that be final cut?) will be for me.

    MC 7.0.4 - Asus P6T Deluxe V2 mobo - Intel i7 920 2.66GHz - Windows 7 Ult64 SP1 - nVidia Quadro FX 1800 - 16 Gbyte low latency DDR3 RAM - Internal 8 Tb... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, May 30 2009 7:55 AM In reply to

    • luca.mg
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    Re: Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    If this is the approach just monitoring the feature request forum would have been better than chatting. On the other side we have been introduced to openness, while MC and ProTools on the same workstation should have been here quite a while ago and selling Unity to FinalCut users it's not a mean of openness as it's merely a way to try to increase profits, I'm really looking forward for future developments regarding interoperability with software and hardware from other manifacturers, as well as broader support for non-Avid codecs/file formats, Aja (and the like) support as well as the possibility to use Avid I/O hardware with non Avid software are a must, if those are in the pipeline it's in Avid's best interest to disclose such an info regardless of any NDA policy as this is one of the main reasons why the Company is losing customers as of today, chatting is exchanging informations after all: it's impossible to chat if one of the parts just chats up to a (tight) limit.

    Symphony 2018.12.3, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Sat, May 30 2009 9:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    Larry Rubin:
    Sorry Kirk, but with all due respect I am not impressed. Your answers for the most part, while very well intentioned, are far too vague and restricted by company policy and regulations to be truly effective communiques.

    I agree with Larry.  The answers read like they were translated from plain English into corporate speak by lawyers and PR people.

    adios,
    Carl

    Media Composer 2019.7 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Envy 17t-j100 Quad Edition laptop, Windows 10 Pro, Intel Core i7 2.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, nVidia GeForce GT... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Sat, May 30 2009 2:48 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
    • Top 50 Contributor
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    Re: Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    camoscato:
    The answers read like they were translated from plain English into corporate speak by lawyers and PR people.

     

     

    Agreed. As much as I like Kirk, and I do, she has the tendency to go "Corporate Speak" when she talks to groups also. To be fair, in the world she comes form that is how everyone communicates. 

     

    Overall I gleaned nothing from the answers other than Avid pointing to the ProTools / MC combo working, and the feature upgrades to MC that we all know about already.

     

    For my part, adding keyframes to the CC in the current implementation doesn't make it a Color killer. And when they went to the "workflow is better in Avid CC" approach, I felt they stole my only remaining defense of the Avid color corrector. :-(

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

    Burbank, Ca

    www.alphadogs.tv

    www.digitalservicestation.com

    www.editorslounge.com

  • Sat, May 30 2009 6:25 PM In reply to

    • Abeyta
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    Re: Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    Answer:

    Thank you for your feedback regarding Symphony.  Many of our customers continue to find value with Symphony.  Symphony offers universal mastering and secondary color correction, features that are not available in Media Composer.  Symphony also offers value to customers interested in purchasing a pre-configured solution.  Avid offers pre-configured versions of Symphony for both Mac and PC. 

     

     

    Is this even an answer? It looks like it was taken from a product brochure. I take this as, NO we are not retooling or upgrading the Symphony's finishing capabilities. I think this is very unfortunate.

    Mac Pro 2013 6 Core 3.5ghz, MC Symphony 8.7, 16GB RAM, D700, OS 10.10.5, Ultrastudio 4K, Pegasus2 R6 12TB [view my complete system specs]

     

    Derrick Abeyta | Blu Pixel

    Phoenix, Arizona

    www.blupixelpost.com

     

  • Sat, May 30 2009 9:56 PM In reply to

    • NICKB
    • Top 100 Contributor
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    Re: Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    Kirk cannot say much because of regulations, however i like to read in between the lines

     

    'we are actively exploring the possibility of qualifying third-party devices.'

    That to me reads AJA Blackmagic, Matrox cards working with Avid.

     

    'Avid's color correction tools compare favorably to the competition's onboard correction options, and we continue to innovate'.

     That to me reads do not expect better color correction in MC

     

    'Many of our customers continue to find value with Symphony.  '

    Avid seem very defensive on Symphony they know many clients can only stay in business by using an offline MC on line Symphony workflow with the money made in the Online

     

    Avid need to create a BIG BANG moment with lots of announcements that transforms the companies products and customer perception.

    Ending on a positive note i really think they do 'get it' but they are still behind the curve thanks to the old management and they know it.

  • Sun, May 31 2009 4:42 AM In reply to

    Re: Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    I too feel that the answer, while factually correct, didn't really address my question.  I appreciate an answer, but I am disappointed that because I didn't make my question a paragraph, I did not get an answer near what I was looking for.

    My question was - when will Mojo DX work with Pro Tools?

    The answer is -

    Answer:

    We are happy to report that with Media Composer 3.5 you can have Pro Tools and Media Composer installed on the same system!  This co-install feature is part of our initiative to ensure that we allow Avid products to work together as seamlessly as possible!

    While that may very well be true (I can't test it myself), its not what I wanted to know.  I feel my question need to be worded as follows:  I currently use Mojo SDI with Pro Tools to capture video to the Pro Tools timeline.  With ATSC officially taking over OTA broadcasting on June 12, when will I be able to capture and playback HD video with a Pro Tools timeline?  When will Mojo DX work with Pro Tools?

    Even if you can have Media Composer 3.5 and Pro Tools v8.0 installed on the same system, it does not mean that Mojo DX works with Pro Tools.  It means that you can use Pro Tools on a CPU that has a Mojo DX attached.  It doesn't mean Pro Tools can utilize the Mojo DX, unless I missed something over the last two (2) months.  Someone please correct me if I am wrong.  I want to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

    Thanks for responding Kirk.  Your response may not be the answer I was driving at, but you did respond.

    8-core Nehalem Mac Pro with Pro Tools|HDX v10.3.8 and DeckLink HD Extreme 8-core Nehalem Mac Pro with Symphony Nitris DX v7.0.3 12-core Westmere Mac... [view my complete system specs]

    Jonathan S. Abrams, CEA, CEV, CBNT

    Apple Certified - Technical Coordinator (v10.5), Support Professional (v10.6 through v10.8)

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  • Mon, Jun 1 2009 1:14 AM In reply to

    • Brickwad
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    Re: Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    I was anticipating some real responses with some solid info - or at least a hint as to direction. Needless to say, I was woefully disappointed.

    1 MC4 Nitris DX on 12 core 2.66 mac pro 6 Gigs of Ram, 2 Symphony Nitris DX on eight core mac pro with 12 gig ram, 3 MC7 on Mac Pro, IMAC, and Macbook... [view my complete system specs]

    WWLD?

  • Mon, Jun 1 2009 1:35 AM In reply to

    Re: Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    Quoting BLKDOG, from a posting he made today in the "Dongle or No Dongle" thread:

    Hi guys,

    So sorry to be so long away from the forums but Marianna has been off this week and I have been at a customer site so I've been delayed in responding here.

    First off, Kirks comments have set off quite a bit of discussion but let me assure you that no where in her comments did she say that the dongle is definitely done for. Now, I have no knowledge one way or the other on the fate of the dongle but I do know that discussions are still ongoing and it is a very large part of product meetings and decisions day to day. Threads like these are discussed daily so all of the arguments are being heard. Avid really does want to find a way to make this work so let's just wait and see what comes out of Tewks. What Kirk did say is that whatever options are developed for licensing, it will be consistent across all of the products in the lineup just as everything will be in the future.

    Now, Who is asking for SA? As I posted a few pages back, you all have to know that there are three basic components to Avid's customer base, Post, Broadcast and Educational. As you can imagine, the broadcast base is huge. Avid products are the de-facto leader in the broadcast television news world and this is one set of the customer base that really wants Avid to do away with the dongle. The other group is education as Scott has explained here. So, two thirds of the customer base has, by and large, been requesting a move like this for some time now. That leaves Post and we are the largest set of contributors to the forums. The vote to keep the dongle is most passionate in our corner of the Avid world and we are seeing that here and on other forums as well. This message is being heard and I do know that the powers that be are taking it very seriously. We all hope that a middle ground can be found but we will have to wait and see.

    I don't expect to hear one way or the other in the near future but, if Marianna or I do get wind of which way the decision i leaning, we will let you all know as soon as we do.

    As always, if you have any questions or need to discuss anything about this, you are welcome to email either Marianna or myself anytime.

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Mon, Jun 1 2009 2:22 AM In reply to

    Re: Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    Thanks for reposting Larry.

    The argument that there are 3 basic parts therefore any 2 of those parts equals two thirds is hugely flawed IMO.

    The education market is a basic give away the software proposition and if my experience is anything to go by vastly different from the narrow US based Edu market as talked about by Scott.

    Wait and see is a very apothetic approach that is hardly likely to achieve a middle ground solution given the present apparent wind direction.  The only reason there may be a change in Avid's (the powers that be) stated position that the dongle would be dead with MC4's release is a sustained chilly head wind rocking the boat.

  • Mon, Jun 1 2009 2:28 AM In reply to

    Re: Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    I suppose we might need to wait for the release of 4.0 to learn the fate of the dongle.

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Mon, Jun 1 2009 6:57 PM In reply to

    • lmerino
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    • Joined on Mon, Dec 19 2005
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    Re: Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    I'm trying to think of what kind of answers would make people in this forum content.  The only thing I can think of is that people want to hear that the Avid higher-ups agree with them.  But I also understand that Avid cannot just agree cuzz it would put a negative light on some aspects of their company (meaning that agreeing with the customer would, for example, make a competing product look better).

    So, my thought is, that the whole "chat with Avid" is flawed to begin with.

    At the very least, the chat with Avid format can give us confirmation that they even know about a problem that people are clammoring for.

    Actually, I think that's it for me.  We just want confirmation/agreement of very specific problems we have with Avid.  As for the responses about MC/Symphony, there was no confirmation of anything in those answers.  That might also go for the Color Correction.  The customers say "hey, it's lacking" and they responded "no it's not."

    But for the 3rd party stuff, they at least said they were looking into it.  Which, in a sense, is agreement with the customer.

    hmmm

    Avid Certified HP Z820 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jun 1 2009 7:07 PM In reply to

    Re: Initial impressions on the Chat with Avid response

    Hi,

    lmerino:
    I'm trying to think of what kind of answers would make people in this forum content.  The only thing I can think of is that people want to hear that the Avid higher-ups agree with them. 

    I don't necessarily want them to agree with me, but I'd like them to speak to me like a professional who uses their products to make a living as opposed to a shareholder interested in maximizing value through adjusting corprate headcounts downard, eliminating redundant synergies, and examining the value-added steps in our processes.  It's cool that they're listening, but it's not cool that they're responding with corporate speak and jargon.

    adios,
    Carl

    Media Composer 2019.7 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Envy 17t-j100 Quad Edition laptop, Windows 10 Pro, Intel Core i7 2.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, nVidia GeForce GT... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

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