Latest post Wed, May 27 2009 7:32 PM by mrmikster. 43 replies.
Page 2 of 3 (44 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next >
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 8:08 PM In reply to

    • Haze
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 764
    • Points 10,205

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    A lot of chatter going on here considering that Todd is the only one that appears to have actually used Color.  I suppose this is an example of the mystique of Apple, users that have never used the product still feel passionately about the product.  I don't get it.  Correct me if I'm wrong Bobby, I'm under the impression that you haven't used Color.    

    Avid DS 11 | Z800, Symphony 6.5 | HP xw 8600, MC 6.5 | HP Z400, Unity Storage [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 8:12 PM In reply to

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    Ignoring it isn't going to make it go away, and it certainly isn't a response with effectiveness.
    Who's ignoring it? I said thank you very much as I added it to my selection of tools and immediately went and talked to a colourist who could drive it effectively.... Learned a lot from him I did. Most of that was even though we have the tools we need a specialist in a specialist environment with a lot of very expensive monitoring for Color to have any significance in our workflow. 

    Even getting Color as a freebie with FCS it is a far better business model for me to make money out of editing AND a mark up on out sourcing  the grading to experts using the full gamut of dedicated tools.  (Color not being one of them)

  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 8:18 PM In reply to

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    Hi,

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    Ignoring it isn't going to make it go away, and it certainly isn't a response with effectiveness.

    Out of curiosity, why do you assume they're ignoring it?  If you look at the feature request forum, there are requests for improvements to audio, media management, firewire capture, the project window, color correction (that one's yours), one guy who wants keyframes to be shaped like rhombuses (rhombii?), and that's just on the first of 47 pages.  All that stuff takes time to do.

    adios,
    Carl

    Media Composer 2019.7 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Envy 17t-j100 Quad Edition laptop, Windows 10 Pro, Intel Core i7 2.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, nVidia GeForce GT... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 9:14 PM In reply to

    • Abeyta
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Phoenix
    • Posts 198
    • Points 2,465

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    When was the last time the Symphony had a new feature added that was different than MC? In my opinion I feel the Symphony has been left behind for a while now. It is billed as a finishing system but lacks some important features in color correction. I hope Avid continues to develop them.

    I read The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction by Steve Hullfish and the book goes through many of the color correction software/hardware (Avid Symphony, Apples Color, Finesse, DaVinci) tools out there. The Symphony clearly lacks some of the tools that the other grading programs have. The author sits in with professional colorists who guide you through step by step in the color grading process on their preferred systems. It's a great book and a must for those looking at understanding more about color grading. 

    Mac Pro 2013 6 Core 3.5ghz, MC Symphony 8.7, 16GB RAM, D700, OS 10.10.5, Ultrastudio 4K, Pegasus2 R6 12TB [view my complete system specs]

     

    Derrick Abeyta | Blu Pixel

    Phoenix, Arizona

    www.blupixelpost.com

     

  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 10:20 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Burbank, CA
    • Posts 2,994
    • Points 37,745

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    Abeyta:
    I read The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction by Steve Hullfish and the book goes through many of the color correction software/hardware (Avid Symphony, Apples Color, Finesse, DaVinci) tools out there.

     

     

    I've heard of that book. I also hear it is great! ;-)

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

    Burbank, Ca

    www.alphadogs.tv

    www.digitalservicestation.com

    www.editorslounge.com

  • Tue, Apr 28 2009 12:43 AM In reply to

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    No, I don't use Color, but I recently sat in on the grading of friend's film. He works at a post production house and cut on MC, but his colleagues told him to use Color for the finishing. And I was allowed to take Color for a spin.

    From what I experienced, Color is better than I've described here. Granted, I wasn't around for the process of getting footage into Color, but using Color was significantly better that what I'm used to with MC and what I've seen Symphony do. Symphony does have some very nice CC features, one being the ability to customize ranges for highlights, mids and blacks. I don't believe Color can do this.

    I also think the effects part of Color is overkill, but the mattes, keys, vignettes are much better than what MC/Symphony offers while in the CC Toolset. And that's what it's all about, not having to switch back and forth. Color puts all the tools you need right there for you.

    It was also very easy to move from correction layer to correction layer or use a Secondary Room correction as just another primary correction and switch between views.

    Keying was very nice b/c it uses a three dimensional vectorscope that projects luminance, if I remember correctly, onto the Z-plane. This makes comparing what you've sampled to what's actually going to be corrected very easy. You see a full representation of all the colors enclosed by the selection superimposed upon the sample made by the eyedropper. (I do like the input-side / output-side philosophy of Symphony which I didn't see any corollary to in Color.)

    And anyone who's experienced a control surface will not want to give one up. This is b/c significant changes to a value while CCing affects other levels, so everything becomes a bit of a moving target. Having three sets of controls makes Color a very nice instrument to use.

    That said, I think given the TIME almost everything that was done in that Color session could have been done in MC. But then again everything that was done could have been done in Sony Vegas, After Effects, Color Finesse. Just because an approach is possible, doesn't mean that it's a viable professional solution.

    And that is what people who buy Symphony are expecting. At one time that's exactly what they were getting, now, not so much.

    The fact that such a powerful tool comes with FCP as part of FCS is pretty amazing, crazy, scary...  depending on your POV.

     

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Tue, Apr 28 2009 1:11 AM In reply to

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    Carl,

    You KNOW I think the Product Features Requests forum should be broken up into subforums. This way there isn't one flat 47 page list of overlapping and repeated requests. But you have been adamantly against this.Stick out tongue

    http://community.avid.com/forums/t/61764.aspx

    So, sorry, but I have no idea where a feature is on Avid's to do list or how much attention it's getting.

    I've been to two Avid event in LA during the past year. When I asked about an Avid reponse to Color, all I was told is that it's a separate app which Apple hasn't done anything to since it was Final Touch--which isn't true, they added curves.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Tue, Apr 28 2009 1:23 AM In reply to

    • TCurren
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Burbank, CA
    • Posts 2,994
    • Points 37,745

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    all I was told is that it's a separate app which Apple hasn't done anything to since it was Final Touch--which isn't true, they added curves.

     

    Gee, I wonder where they got the idea curves were important... ;-]

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

    Burbank, Ca

    www.alphadogs.tv

    www.digitalservicestation.com

    www.editorslounge.com

  • Tue, Apr 28 2009 2:31 AM In reply to

    • Abeyta
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Phoenix
    • Posts 198
    • Points 2,465

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    TCurren:
    I've heard of that book. I also hear it is great! ;-)

     

    Terence, your tips in the book were very helpful. I've found your 15 degree angle in the midtones from the red to blue channels does come up a lot. It makes a lot of pretty images. Thanks!

    Mac Pro 2013 6 Core 3.5ghz, MC Symphony 8.7, 16GB RAM, D700, OS 10.10.5, Ultrastudio 4K, Pegasus2 R6 12TB [view my complete system specs]

     

    Derrick Abeyta | Blu Pixel

    Phoenix, Arizona

    www.blupixelpost.com

     

  • Tue, Apr 28 2009 3:44 AM In reply to

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    Photoshop? Stick out tongue Nahh it's was Symphony Idea. Which is so sad that such an awesome product has been left languishing from a finishing perspective.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Tue, Apr 28 2009 5:32 AM In reply to

    • luca.mg
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Roma - Italy
    • Posts 5,610
    • Points 65,805

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    the off-line to on-line paradigm is fading away
    This is a fact, and that's why I wrote that having both MC and Synphony doesn't make sense; except for CC and universal mastering there's no difference between the two, and these two features alone are not worth the price difference between MC and Synphony, moreover, given the feature set of the main competitor Avid should really make Synphony its only product significantly dropping the price or boost MC with the Synphony's tools and stop selling Synphony itself, whichever way it's only a marketing/naming issue, the thing being to merge the two products keeping it in the price range of MC/FCS (more or less) to better compete with FCS. If they wanted two products in their line discontinuing XpressPro has been a mistake as it was more sensible to have a prosumer product and a professional one, while it doesn't seem reasonable to have two professional apps very close to each other in feature set and very far away from each other as for pricing (in these days of the fading away of the off-line on-line paradigm).

    Symphony 2018.12.3, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Tue, Apr 28 2009 7:35 PM In reply to

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    Hi BMF,

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    You KNOW I think the Product Features Requests forum should be broken up into subforums. This way there isn't one flat 47 page list of overlapping and repeated requests. But you have been adamantly against this.Stick out tongue

    Yeah, but nobody listens to me.  ;)

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    I have no idea where a feature is on Avid's to do list or how much attention it's getting.

    I watched the podcast interview with Frank Capria that was posted on one of the Avid blogs a while back.  From what I gathered, they take all the feature requests (from the forum and wherever else they get them), figure out how difficult each one would be to implement and how many people would benefit from the feature requested, and then make a prioritized list and start working down it.

    After reading (on this forum and others) hundreds of people with the same opinion as yours regarding the deficiencies in Avid's color correction tools, I can't imagine Avid's unaware of them.

    good luck,
    Carl

    Media Composer 2019.7 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Envy 17t-j100 Quad Edition laptop, Windows 10 Pro, Intel Core i7 2.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, nVidia GeForce GT... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Wed, Apr 29 2009 10:38 AM In reply to

    • TCurren
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Burbank, CA
    • Posts 2,994
    • Points 37,745

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    Abeyta:
    I've found your 15 degree angle in the midtones from the red to blue channels does come up a lot. It makes a lot of pretty images. Thanks!

     

    You're welcome! Steve had a great idea with that book. I was flattered to be allowed to join the stable of top notch colorists that worked on it. This was done about 3 or 4 years ago, before Apple bought "Final Touch" which became Color.

     

    The beauty is that it is a timeless book as it has to do with the approach that colorists take to the work as opposed to talking about the interface of a color correction system.

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

    Burbank, Ca

    www.alphadogs.tv

    www.digitalservicestation.com

    www.editorslounge.com

  • Wed, Apr 29 2009 11:47 AM In reply to

    • NICKB
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 1,182
    • Points 16,295

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    Color maybe like audio and video effects / graphics in that at some point you have to decide to send the job towards a specialist person using a specialist application in a dedicated room.

  • Wed, Apr 29 2009 1:06 PM In reply to

    • berga
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Stockholm, Sweden, Europe
    • Posts 1,658
    • Points 19,845

    Re: Will Avid Have an Answer to Color?

    AndrewAction:

    I said thank you very much as I added it to my selection of tools and immediately went and talked to a colourist who could drive it effectively.... Learned a lot from him I did. Most of that was even though we have the tools we need a specialist in a specialist environment with a lot of very expensive monitoring for Color to have any significance in our workflow. 

    Even getting Color as a freebie with FCS it is a far better business model for me to make money out of editing AND a mark up on out sourcing  the grading to experts using the full gamut of dedicated tools.  (Color not being one of them)

    I think You nail the truth very precis here Andrew, and Nick latter on.

    Most if use who using MC or other NLEs do not have the set up which make it possibly to do all these fine toning. And of course a very specialist program/tool need a specialist who works almost daily with it.

    I hade to use Mapinfo, a specialsit map making program, maybe the best, but I is to complicated to me and I have been totaly lost, even if I use to show data on maps.

    A question, who need color and have a scope and a calibrated broadcast monitor? Who of You can calibrate theat monitor and read the scope? who of You can use the scope to 75% for color correction?

    HP xw4600, 3.2Mhz, 4Gb RAM, Mojo. 500GB SATA Bootdrive, 3x500GB internal raid-0 for video, Windows 7 Pro Swedish, MC7 with Symphony option, Blackmagic... [view my complete system specs]
Page 2 of 3 (44 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next >

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller