Latest post Fri, May 15 2009 10:02 PM by BobRusso. 16 replies.
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  • Tue, Mar 24 2009 10:09 PM

    XD CAM EX1 HELP

    Hey Guys,

    Just received an external drive with XDCAM EX1 footage from a shoot.  First XDCAM edit.  Am preparing my workflow.  I've got a few basic things to take care of first: got to upgrade to MC 3.5 (so I have to upgrade my OS to Leopard first) - and I'm planning on doing that.  But I was looking at the footage with Sony's clipbrowser software, and also just looking at the folders on the drive.  MY QUESTION, which I hope someone can answer:

    Drive contains folders broken down by shoot day.

    Inside each day folder a BPAV folder.  Inside that: CLPR folder, CUEUP.XML, MEDIAPRO.XML, TAKR folder.

    Inside the CLPR folder, the individual clip folders; example 302.1116.01.  Inside that an .MP4 file (same 302...header),

    a .SMI file, a .PPN file, AN .XML file, and a .BIM file.

    THE .XML files are labeled as FINAL CUT files.  Just data files I'm sure,  BUT (and here's the QUESTION):

    Just the fact that .XML files have been generated is not going to LOCK ME INTO EDITING THIS ON FINAL CUT, IS IT?

    I do not want to edit this project in Final Cut unless I absolutely have to.

    Answers and explanations appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Paul Hartel

     

    How hard is that?

    Filed under: , ,
  • Wed, Mar 25 2009 4:51 AM In reply to

    • ManChicken
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    Re: XD CAM EX1 HELP

    All of the files you're seeing are what the camera created originally - the XML is just metadata for apps that feel like using it.  The fact that they are associated with Final Cut is only because FCP is set as the default handler for any file ending in .xml - they are not specifically Final Cut files (they're just text files, open them up in Text Edit and take a look.)

    Just leave the directory structure as it is and all will be well.

  • Fri, Mar 27 2009 7:32 PM In reply to

    Re: XD CAM EX1 HELP

    Thanks for that.

    So here's the next and real issue:

    I've upgraded to 3.5, got it running.  I understood that the new version is supposed to have "end to end" support for XDCAM, which will make importing the clips easy as drag and drop.  Apparently not.  Is there a tutorial or workflow paper somewhere that explains how it's supposed to be easily done?

    Thanks,

    PH

    How hard is that?

  • Mon, Mar 30 2009 1:14 AM In reply to

    • kmac
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    Re: XD CAM EX1 HELP

    Hi,

    I'd also like some clarification on the "end to end" workflow support with EX.

    We've just installed MC.3.5 on a new imac system, and my colleagues tell me the only way it can work with native EX media seems to be if it comes in via an EX card reader. They believe that if the EX media is not actually coming directly off the card, ie the BPAV folders have been previously copied onto another drive, the Avid cannot access the "native" media, and we would have to resort to the "Export for NLE" via Sony EX Clip Browser, to rewrap to MXF as previously.

    Can this possibly be true?

    If so, we'll that would be plain Stupid, and utterly useless for 95% of users.

    Our cameramen typically shoot in various cities for a number of days, transferring media daily via a laptop onto a Lacie Rugged drive (or similar), which then comes back to our facility for post. So we receive the BPAV folders of perhaps 10 or 15 cards worth, but obviously the cards themselves are no longer available.

    If this workflow relies on the actual cards being available to the Avid, then that would be phenomenally stupid.

    PLEASE someone tell me this is not so!

    cheers,

    Kmac

    iMac 27inch Retina 5k, 4GHz Intel Core i7, 32 GB Ram, AMD Radeon R9 M395X OSX 10.11.13 Media Composer 8.5.3 with Symphony, DaVinci Resolve 12.5 Blackmagic... [view my complete system specs]

    Ninety thousand frames per hour

  • Mon, Mar 30 2009 1:32 AM In reply to

    • kmac
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    Re: XD CAM EX1 HELP

    Alos, not wishing to sound TOO grumpy,

    If you go to the Avid site, Product Update page (I followed the link Avid themselves emailed to me): click the link "Professional Editing Page", under Media Composer software, click "learn more" you will see a link to the pdf "XDCam, edit your way, right away"

    This information is out of date, and has no mention of v3.5 features.

    now that's what I call Professional Editing

    cheers

    kmac

    iMac 27inch Retina 5k, 4GHz Intel Core i7, 32 GB Ram, AMD Radeon R9 M395X OSX 10.11.13 Media Composer 8.5.3 with Symphony, DaVinci Resolve 12.5 Blackmagic... [view my complete system specs]

    Ninety thousand frames per hour

  • Mon, Mar 30 2009 6:31 AM In reply to

    • Codec Moment
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    Re: XD CAM EX1 HELP

    You're looking for AMA. This is the new 3.5 feature. What happens is you go into "link to AMA volume" (in File, i believe) and select the upper most folder of each EX1 roll (the one above BPAV). It will directly read the clips on the card and create a new bin with all the clips. When using AMA nothing is imported into your standard Avid Media/OMFI Media directory, it is read right from the mp4 files inside of the XDCAM folder architecture. You can work directly from this, but I would suggest consolitdating or transcoding the clips so that they are a part of the traditional avid media structure.

     

    The AMA way works fine  but is still in its infinitle stages. You may run into problems with having too many AMA volumes in one sequence, as well as problems with AMA audio in tracks beyond A1/A2. Still, it is a great way too access media before deciding what to import, and for small projects it can be use from start to finish. I would say transcode/consolidate if you're on a bigger project.

     

    Best of luck.

    Mac OSX 10.6.8 Avid Media Composer v6.0.1 Macbook Pro 2.5GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2 GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM [view my complete system specs]

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  • Mon, Mar 30 2009 11:06 PM In reply to

    • kmac
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    Re: XD CAM EX1 HELP

    Hi Codec,

    that SOUNDS like it relies on the actual card still being available at the edit workstation...

    is that right? This would be impossible in many situations.

    Do you think it would work with copies of multiple BPAV folders on attached hard drives?

     

    cheers,

    kmac

    iMac 27inch Retina 5k, 4GHz Intel Core i7, 32 GB Ram, AMD Radeon R9 M395X OSX 10.11.13 Media Composer 8.5.3 with Symphony, DaVinci Resolve 12.5 Blackmagic... [view my complete system specs]

    Ninety thousand frames per hour

  • Tue, Mar 31 2009 6:57 AM In reply to

    • Codec Moment
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    Re: XD CAM EX1 HELP

    Nope. you don't need the original card, just the contents which you have copied to your dive, just so the original folder structure is maintained. I'm on my third EX project, about to start my fourth, the card copied to the drive functions just the same as reading the card its self.

    Mac OSX 10.6.8 Avid Media Composer v6.0.1 Macbook Pro 2.5GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2 GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM [view my complete system specs]

    I trust orange juice more than I trust most people.

  • Wed, May 13 2009 2:51 PM In reply to

    • Aubin
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    Re: XD CAM EX1 HELP

    Anyway, I find it outrageous from avid to release a new system (AMA), presenting it as THE best ultimate solution for the EX1 workflow, with such important bugs! To work with only 2 audio tracks is simply impossible in TV documentary editing. What where the AVID engineers thinking off when they released MC 3.5!!!!  On the HD workflow, it seems to me that AVID is completely lost, compared to its concurrents...

  • Wed, May 13 2009 3:03 PM In reply to

    • BLKDOG
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    Re: XD CAM EX1 HELP

    Then you haven't yet used AMA. The only limitation you have on the audio channels is if you are using them directly from the card. This is a limitation in Sony's codec but one that Avid is attempting to work around.

    If you consolidate the material to your HDs, you are able to use the audio channels on whatever track you wish.

    You do not have to edit from the card directly, you are able to link AMA to a folder structure on a HD.

    Project Manager, Avid Professional Services - Americas [view my complete system specs]

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  • Wed, May 13 2009 4:28 PM In reply to

    • Aubin
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    Re: XD CAM EX1 HELP

    Thank you but I'v been using AMA for the last two weeks. I don't use it directly from the SXS card but after I transferred my MPEG 4 to a HD. But if I have to do a consolidate of all my medias before editing it's actually going to take even more time than just do the old MXF AAF trick with Sony clip browser 2, you see what I mean?  I'm a bit amazed then, knowing that AVID is mostly used by film or TV professionnals , that you release an upgrade with such limitations....

  • Wed, May 13 2009 4:35 PM In reply to

    • BLKDOG
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    Re: XD CAM EX1 HELP

    The time to consolidate should be roughly the same as the time to re-wrap using the clip browser. With AMA, you don't need that step.

    As it has been explained to me, the EX codec used by Sony limites the way Avid can address the audio channels contained in the file. However, Sony is working closely with Avid to see if this can be changed in the future.

    Project Manager, Avid Professional Services - Americas [view my complete system specs]

    In agreement, Unity. In Disagreement, Discussion. In all things, Charity.


  • Wed, May 13 2009 5:19 PM In reply to

    • BobRusso
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    This is a link to download a PDF that Paul Sampson put together that has details on some of the new features in Media Composer 3.5. It covers AMA and its use.

    Media_Composer_3.5_Update.pdf

    https://www.youtube.com/avidevangelistbob [view my complete system specs]

    -- Bob Russo Post-Production Workflow Manager - NFL Films

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  • Wed, May 13 2009 5:33 PM In reply to

    • switthaus
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    Re: XD CAM EX1 HELP

    Bob -

     

    Would you reccomend that edtiorially heavy projects or large projects stay away from AMA for the time being?

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

  • Wed, May 13 2009 5:47 PM In reply to

    • BobRusso
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    Re: XD CAM EX1 HELP

    Using AMA to link to a P2, XDCAM HD (depends on the speed of the deck) or EX volume is very fast and supports a great deal of metadata.

    Using AMA to link to a P2 Card is much faster than the P2 Clips to bin command. The P2 Content Management software can be used to add metadata to a P2 card and this will be read along with what the camera records.

    With XDCAM EX the Clip Browser software can be used to add metadata to the clips. Title 1, Title 2, Creator, and Description will be read along with the metadata the camera records.

    A couple bugs were discovered with XDCAM EX AMA volumes after the release, AudioSuite will crash and the audio will be silent in on any tracks other than 1 and 2. The workaround is to consolidate the clips to local storage. This is a simple rewrap from MP4 to MXF, the same thing the Sony Clip Browser is doing. A transcode is not required, but it is possible to transcode to 15:1 SD for an offline and relink to the high res clips for the online.

    This is far superior to using the Clip Browser because of all the added metadata that's read along with the ability to relink to the original EX folder if the media is deleted in the Avid MediaFiles folder. Using the Clip Browser, if the media is deleted and recreated, it will not relink, even with the 2.5 version.

    Without question, there's no reason to not use AMA. For XDCAM EX, with this release, the clips will have to be consolidated.
     

    https://www.youtube.com/avidevangelistbob [view my complete system specs]

    -- Bob Russo Post-Production Workflow Manager - NFL Films

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