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  • Wed, Mar 4 2009 6:21 PM

    • pro---studio
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    The bye bye Avid Thread

    Hi editors,

     

    I think this thread will be deleted very soon because of the "not so good" truth for avid that is in it. If that thread will be deleted or moved to nowhere (like 2 other threads) it only proves the ignorance of avid to the opinion of their useres.

     

    I will leave my (favourite) editing application and switch to Final Cut Pro. I had many thoughts about that and finally made this decision. I ordered a new Mac today and the Final Cut Edit Suite with all bangs and whistles. I will use it to edit mainly HD (with an AJA interface) and that whole system costs me less than 7000 Euro with a raid system and 3TB of video hd. I can even edit red material and everything else that customers bring to my edit booth.

     

    I want to tell you something about my thoughts that led me to that decision:

    - Avid only claims it's new thinking! The truth is: Nobody hears you with your problems. The funniest thing is: If you find a bug in the software and post it in this forum - the mods tell you that this is not a bug but a feature! Hey thats cool!

    - I have MC3.1.2 and since Xpress Pro I am not able to use my Mojo analog to play out smooth video to a digibeta deck without stutters and glitches

    - To capture via firewire is always a huge adventure. If I try to capture HDV (before I upgraded my system to Vista64) I could not capture without having plenty of errors like "audio video is not coming into the system...." and many others more. That happened with a bunch of cameras. A friend of mine has that issues too and does also capture HDV with premiere pro and then imports into avid (nice huh?)

    - On my new Vista64 system it is not possible to capture HDV at all because avid (in fact the only application that has problems with this) doesn't recognise the camera if it is in HDV mode. I have to use Premiere Pro CS4 for that - And guess what? This App runs so stable - even if you switch of the camera during capturing it does not crash. Switch it back on and just continue.

    - P2 workflow is absolutely terrible. I get huge projects from my clients with 30-40 P2 cards on a hd. I have to manually edit the file structure on the hd's because avid only sees the virtual P2 cards if they are in the first driectory or in the second below root. Everything deeper will not import.

    - P2 workflow drives me mad: If you import the clips via "clips to bin" and exit the application all media will be offline after you start MC again - MC gives you no warning or any comment on that when you close. I learned from the mods of that forum that this is a feature and not a bug. I now know it better because in these days I didn't knew that Avid is planing this feature (hold P2 clips online - even if you close the app) as the main advantage of the new 3.5 update. If they changed it in 3.1.3 nobody would buy the update.

    - I don't know how to say it nice but... I DON'T WANT STUPID THINGS LIKE STEREOSCOPIC EDITING while other important functions are still broken.

    - Avids update policy is the worst I have ever seen. I've paid 500 Euro for the Update from MC 2.8 to 3.0 - now I have to pay another 500 Euro to switch to 3.5 which only gives me a feature (P2 stays online) that should have been there allready since 2.8????

    -I must pay the same price for the update if I wouldn't have upgraded to 3.0??? That's a real kick in my ass. I shouldn't have done this. (And I will never do it anymore - hehehehe!)

    - AAF and OMF nightmares - huge problems to export even to avids own baby protools. I have huge problems to export aaf and omf from P2 to nuendo. Avid scrambles somtimes the audio even if it plays fine in the timeline! Empty clips and not mtching timecode are other problems with that.

    -Pan and Zoom - hey - come on - this is a stone age plug that doesn't fit the needs for an editor today. No rotation - no 3D space totally slow in rendering. And the best is: If you use it in P2 projects (don't know if it's related to that) the pictures go offline if you close MC. You have to reimport one picture - after that all others are online again. If I use the "AVID ULTRA QUALITY" algorhythm - I get still very fancy moire problems on the pictures. The quality is really low.

    -I don't trust avid anymore. They promise cool things and do nothing to satisfy their "tiny" customers that bought only all apps from them since avid dv and mojo analog. New thinking is an empty phrase to me.

    -If you have troubles with MC it is always related to non qualified hardware - never ever to the software. Thats nonsense too. I had big issues with my mojo (the stuttering thing) all mods and avid told me that this problems (on my certified dell machine) could only be related to a not supported firewire card. The recommendation was a pyro card (for 150 bugs) that I bought. And guess what? Nothing changed. Even with a fully qualified system (not a single piece of unqualified hardware): Stutters and problems with mojo. Mojo was tested by the support - they found no problem. And I'm left alone again.

    - MC is such a pitty piece of software. If you turn of the camera or the deck (that you have captured with) after batching to start editing - MC hangs and throws every error that it has at you. If you want to change the resoultion while capturing - please don't ever try that. MC crashes even if I switch my DVCPro50 deck from 25 to 50 Mbit.

    -If you capture (digitize) video through mojo component the video looks ok for maybe 10 seconds and then freezes for a second - then continues for another 10 seconds and freezes again.It's a "feature" that avid knows about. But no solution

    - Avid is "Millionair - Only" if you want to have a external HD monitor. No 3rd party hardware is supported. Please avid - take a look around - you will have a good chance for that at the coming NAB. Every competitor does that. Let your customers decide what they want to use.

    - The "read time code from audio" feature is broken as it cannot read audio from P2 source files. It just writes the timecode of one file (even if you have only selected this one) to all P2 files in the bin. No help - no clue - no answers in that forum and a removed thread in the "talk with avid" forum.

    - Avid don't wants to hear about our problems. I posted a thread about the "read audio timecode" issue in the "Talk with avid" Forum. This thread has been removed with the comment that only "high level communication" should take place in this forum. OK there you have it - I hope you enjoy your "high level communication" I will never post any comments or problems again. Another kick in my ass.

    -Slow import times. I can wait hours if I import P2 native Files. I have a raid system that supports 300MB/s - that cannot be the problem!

    -Absolutly stone age audio engine and plug ins. That thing didn't change since avid dv - and guess why? They want to sell protools for that. Avid is miles behind their competitors with that.

    -No subframe audio editing! Anyone tried to sync with a clapper? Had this issue many times that I had to move the audio a half frame to get an exact sync. It is not possible with MC. You will have to export your audio and move it half a frame in your audio app, then reimport into avid.

     

    That are only a few things that happened to me - I think many users had equal problems with different workflows. What stays the same is: AVID is not listening to us but just wants to make more money. The recent offer of the "update" proves it. I still love the interface of MC and I know I won't be satisfied with the interface of Final Cut Pro but I feel it is time to go with winners and not with someone who claims to do "New thinking" and does nothing but kicking the ass of the patriotic users. I've been pissed of by avid one time too much. So it's time for me to say bye bye.

     

    I wish you all the best and a huge amount of satisfied customers and I hope that avid will sometimes change  and starts "New thinking" for real. Maybe then I will come back. But for now my time with avid is over (and I'm really not worried about that)

    God bless you all

     

    Bye

     

    ASUS P5Q3 / Intel Quad Core 9650 / nvidia Quadro 4500 / 8GB Ram OCZ / onboard sound / 250GB SATA System HD / 1,5TB Video HD Raid5 on Highpoint 2310 / Mojo... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Mar 4 2009 6:29 PM In reply to

    Re: The bye bye Avid Thread

    God bless you too my friend.

    This could be a wise choice but if you never worked with Macs then you are on your own about solving hardware problems.

    I mean what ever NLE we are using is based on hardware we can move in and out of the box in some minutes.

    I am not sure this is the case with Macs. This alone is frighten me always with FCP not the software.

    But I see a change in Avid to move to "non broadcast" or "film" users which is for me is wise.

    This going to take some time and maybe some hassles but time will show.

    Desktop PC

     

    Corsair RM750X|Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)|i7 2600K@4.4|Corsair 32G DDR3|PNY Quadro P2000(411.95)|Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB|2x1TB Crucial MX500@RAID 0|2x500GB Mushkin SSD@RAID 0|LG BH16NS40|W10 Pro 64bit|Media Composer Software 2019.6 with Symphony Option on Dongle|2xHP 22'' Monitors|M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Wed, Mar 4 2009 6:33 PM In reply to

    • BLKDOG
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Lansing, MI
    • Posts 17,731
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    • Avid Employee
      Moderator: MCA Mac
      Moderator: MCA PC

    Re: The bye bye Avid Thread

    Good Bye Pro. It was nice having you here. Through Many Many threads I, and others, have tried to let you know that this is not a technical suport forum. This is a users forum where Avid allows employees like Marianna and Myself the freedom to get you the help you may need. In two threads now I have asked you if you had contacted customer support for your problems and you have yet to answer. I have offered to get you real support but did not hear back. Many of your points of contention are the result of misinformation or a simple lack of understanding of how the Avid deals with things like P2.

    If you should find that it is worth your investment to try again I am happy to try and get you the help you need but, as I have said in the past, this is not the place in which you should place al your tech support hope. We do help one another but, when situations like yours arrise, they really need to go to the support ine for help.

     

    Project Manager, Avid Professional Services - Americas [view my complete system specs]

    In agreement, Unity. In Disagreement, Discussion. In all things, Charity.


  • Wed, Mar 4 2009 6:37 PM In reply to

    Re: The bye bye Avid Thread

    Not relevant with pro's thoughts and feelings, I am sure all of those years that someone who edits with NLE must have an expertise in PC's. You have to rely ONLY to yourself in the first place and at 90%. The other 10% are forums like this one or Pinnacles or whatever.

    Now in Macs I don't know.

    Desktop PC

     

    Corsair RM750X|Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)|i7 2600K@4.4|Corsair 32G DDR3|PNY Quadro P2000(411.95)|Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB|2x1TB Crucial MX500@RAID 0|2x500GB Mushkin SSD@RAID 0|LG BH16NS40|W10 Pro 64bit|Media Composer Software 2019.6 with Symphony Option on Dongle|2xHP 22'' Monitors|M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Wed, Mar 4 2009 6:52 PM In reply to

    Re: The bye bye Avid Thread

    I'm sorry to hear about your disappointment. My experiences are largely different. Also I disagree with some points you mention, and one is at least incorrect in part:

    pro---studio:
    -No subframe audio editing! Anyone tried to sync with a clapper? Had this issue many times that I had to move the audio a half frame to get an exact sync. It is not possible with MC. You will have to export your audio and move it half a frame in your audio app, then reimport into avid.

    There is - and always has been - Perf Slip available in 35mm p-projects. Allows you to slip sync by a quarter of a frame.

    No subframe audio editing[i/] though. Can you do that in FCP?

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Mar 4 2009 6:56 PM In reply to

    • pro---studio
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    Re: The bye bye Avid Thread

    BLKDOG:
    Many of your points of contention are the result of misinformation or a simple lack of understanding of how the Avid deals with things like P2.

     

    That is exactly what makes the people change to another app like Final Cut Pro. It is always the user - not the software. Hold your nose up high - we did it in the last 10 years and will continue to do it! Even at this point there is no understanding why I as a pro user don't want to be treated like that. I always feel like a dumb boy when I post things in this forum and a mod answers.

     

    But - I know it will take a long time for a real "new thinking". Maybe that will never happen.

     

    Anyway - Bye

    ASUS P5Q3 / Intel Quad Core 9650 / nvidia Quadro 4500 / 8GB Ram OCZ / onboard sound / 250GB SATA System HD / 1,5TB Video HD Raid5 on Highpoint 2310 / Mojo... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Mar 4 2009 7:05 PM In reply to

    • pro---studio
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    Re: The bye bye Avid Thread

    Job ter Burg:

    There is - and always has been - Perf Slip available in 35mm p-projects. Allows you to slip sync by a quarter of a frame.

    Maybe I want to use this feature with a 720p P2 project? Or with a DV25 project? Possible? I don't think so

     

    ASUS P5Q3 / Intel Quad Core 9650 / nvidia Quadro 4500 / 8GB Ram OCZ / onboard sound / 250GB SATA System HD / 1,5TB Video HD Raid5 on Highpoint 2310 / Mojo... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Mar 4 2009 7:05 PM In reply to

    • BLKDOG
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Lansing, MI
    • Posts 17,731
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    • Avid Employee
      Moderator: MCA Mac
      Moderator: MCA PC

    Re: The bye bye Avid Thread

    No, not always the user, just in this case. I help a lot of people on these forums so your issues are not the first time I've seen these questions. In the last three threads that I have offered help, you simpy continue to rant instead of leting us know what we can do to make your situation better. So, I'm going to move on to others who need help and wish you the best with your new solution.

    Project Manager, Avid Professional Services - Americas [view my complete system specs]

    In agreement, Unity. In Disagreement, Discussion. In all things, Charity.


  • Wed, Mar 4 2009 7:14 PM In reply to

    Re: The bye bye Avid Thread

    pro---studio:
    Possible?

    Pretty sure that is, as long as you turn the film options on, at least.

    Can FCP do it?

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Mar 4 2009 7:17 PM In reply to

    • pro---studio
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    Re: The bye bye Avid Thread

    BLKDOG:

    No, not always the user, just in this case. I help a lot of people on these forums so your issues are not the first time I've seen these questions. In the last three threads that I have offered help, you simpy continue to rant instead of leting us know what we can do to make your situation better. So, I'm going to move on to others who need help and wish you the best with your new solution.

     

    I wish you and your company good luck with your opinion. Maybe if another 1000 users leave you will think again about your words. What you don't know: I am and I was in contact with avid support in germany. They had no solution to my problems. I've a job and customers that don't want to wait for "technical problems". I just want to do editing - not to worry about "will the promised feature work or not?". Maybe I've done everything wrong (I don't think so because I use Avid since avid dv) but I don't feel that avid with it's "new thinking" and update policy is the right partner for me. It's only my opinion - I know you will not agree and understand.

     

    Job ter Burg:

    Sub Frame audio editing. Can FCP do it?

     

    Yes - of course

    ASUS P5Q3 / Intel Quad Core 9650 / nvidia Quadro 4500 / 8GB Ram OCZ / onboard sound / 250GB SATA System HD / 1,5TB Video HD Raid5 on Highpoint 2310 / Mojo... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Mar 4 2009 7:31 PM In reply to

    Re: The bye bye Avid Thread

    With regard to your P2 media going Offline when you exit the app, that is the way it works (or worked now that 3.5 is out)

    You import the Clips to Bin to start editing immediately, but that is only half of the P2 workflow.  You need to Import the P2 media if you want to complete the workflow.  That's not a bug.

     

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Wed, Mar 4 2009 7:31 PM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
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    Re: The bye bye Avid Thread

    This was a long goodbye ......

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

  • Wed, Mar 4 2009 8:47 PM In reply to

    Re: The bye bye Avid Thread

    pro---studio:
    I wish you and your company good luck with your opinion.

    Could you refrain from making it personal? Seems irrelevant. You're annoyed with Avid, we get it. No need to attack the moderators nor the users here. Epecially not those investing their spare time sharing information on these forums.
    You did not get what you wanted here. That's obvious, and sad.

    Job ter Burg:
    Sub Frame audio editing. Can FCP do it?

    Yes - of course

    Watched a demo. Looks like an excellent feature, and I would love to have it (cleaning stuff up, cutting music more precisely), but less so if you need to sync up source footage.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Mar 4 2009 9:22 PM In reply to

    • nicov
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    Re: The bye bye Avid Thread

    Do yourself a big favor, install MC3 on your brand new mac since you own it anyways. The Mac/MC combination is a no hassle one, just make sure to use the built in FW for mojo and that you're running the right OS and QT versions. You should not have any stability issue, with deck or mojo or sofware only and FSP.

    Way more stability and stronger real time then FCP in my experience, on a macpro. Render times improved with MC3. No real point in comparing those with FCP re-re-re render world, you'll get acquainted to that soon enought...

    P2 import workflow is basically as slow or as fast as copying files is on your system, depending mostly on your storage speed. Looks like now with 3.5 you can have P2 staying online after relunch without having to ask MC to copy files in the Avidmediafiles directory by using the "Import the P2 media" function and not only the "Clips to bin".

    "Clips to bin" alone is an advantage over FCP cause you can start editing directly. In FCP there's no way of using P2 files before the import process witch basically copys and rewraps in .mov files the .mxf files in the P2's and put's them in his capture folder. That takes aproximately the same time that the import media in MC.

    If you have to sync audio and want subframe audio just make sure you enable the film option when creating your P2 project.

    Now if you want to complain about Avid irrational pricing policy and the poorness of MC's hardware offer I won't contradict you...

    Good luck with FCP, you'll need it.

     

     

    OSX 10.5.5 / MC 3.1.3 / Mojo DX / octo 2.8 Macpro / 6g ram / Ati 2600 + Ati 3870 / 2x Nec 19' + JVC DTV24 / Sony HVR M15 / 2To sata raid0 / [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Mar 5 2009 7:21 AM In reply to

    • luca.mg
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    Re: The bye bye Avid Thread

    I'm one of those who followed Your threads and tried to help You out, as You already made Your decision I'll say goodbye and good luck pro---studio. Be aware however that if You approach FCP with the same attitude You used to approach Avid You'll end up coming across disappointing problems as well, in a few months You'll be posting on an FCP forum Your "bye bye FC" and will have to switch to some other editor. As You own the package I'd try to give MC another chance while changing the way You deal with problems and colleagues trying to help You.

    Symphony 2018.12.3, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

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