Latest post Mon, Feb 16 2009 5:01 PM by sean90291. 17 replies.
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  • Sun, Feb 1 2009 10:11 PM

    • Red Ochre
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    CC and 10 bit color

    I've diged some footage at 220 x and have set my render to 16bit in the media creation setting. When in CC mode I am in 10bit playback but in my curves panels it is still saying 8 bit (and im getting eight bit values ie.  0 - 255).

    I thought the benefit of grading with 10 bit material was that you had a greater range of values to play with (or put another way, the pie is sliced into smaller peices).

    What am I not getting and or not doing? 

    Thanks.

  • Wed, Feb 4 2009 7:56 PM In reply to

    • Red Ochre
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    Re: CC and 10 bit color

  • Thu, Feb 5 2009 9:23 PM In reply to

    • Red Ochre
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    Re: CC and 10 bit color

    Really? No one knows?

  • Fri, Feb 6 2009 4:28 PM In reply to

    • DIESELE
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    Re: CC and 10 bit color

    I asked something similar recently - hating the contouring I was adding to HD material.

    I guess grading only works in 8 bit - like many effects and plugins.  You can try to force an internal render in 16 bit, but I dont think it makes any difference unless you have a 16 bit designed effect (the HQ button will work...).

    Further enquires make me think that 10bit mode is only of any use for output after actual 10 bit media captures (using DNX185x for example) but that it throws away the 2 LSB so you can work easier in 8 bit (green/green) mode meantime.

    Happy to receive any bits of correction!

    D

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  • Fri, Feb 6 2009 5:22 PM In reply to

    • Abeyta
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    Re: CC and 10 bit color

    Avid CC is using 12 bit color space. Below is from the Avid help guide. I think you need to change the units in the CC settings to measure the 10bit.

     

    The options for measuring units available in the Correction Mode Settings dialog box are a convenience that allows you to make adjustments using the units that are most useful or familiar to you. When your application makes the color correction adjustments, it always uses the 12-bit RGB color space and always works with the same degree of accuracy.

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  • Sat, Feb 7 2009 12:27 AM In reply to

    • jwrl
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    Re: CC and 10 bit color

    I've done tests with 8- and 10-bit colorgrading on Avid.  You will definitely see an improvement with 10-bit, although if you're starting with 8-bit media it may not be as big an improvement as you'd hope.

    And Abeyta's posting of the relevant section of the user guide explains why the units you see are still only 0 to 255.  You are definitely grading in steps from from 0 to 1023.  In fact you're grading from 0 to 4095, then downsampling to 0 to 1023.

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  • Sun, Feb 8 2009 5:55 AM In reply to

    • Red Ochre
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    Re: CC and 10 bit color

    Fantastic! Thanks everyone. Except Avid for being so goshdarn obscure! I love the app and would let hell freeze over before fcp set foot in one of our edit bays but you have got to work on communicating your capabilites better. Take a look at the user guide for fluidmotion, its completely incomprehensible! Relying on the community to share this info is not the right way to go about things. I know a lot of editors who have never even touched marquee or Avid FX. Sorry for stirring up trouble here.

  • Sun, Feb 8 2009 6:28 AM In reply to

    • sean90291
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    Re: CC and 10 bit color

    Red Ochre:

    Fantastic! Thanks everyone. Except Avid for being so goshdarn obscure! I love the app and would let hell freeze over before fcp set foot in one of our edit bays but you have got to work on communicating your capabilites better. Take a look at the user guide for fluidmotion, its completely incomprehensible! Relying on the community to share this info is not the right way to go about things. I know a lot of editors who have never even touched marquee or Avid FX. Sorry for stirring up trouble here.

     

    Alas, you are so correct in this regard. Many aspects of Avid are so brilliant but remain so obscure and convoluted that it just doesn't do the company any service. I used to think that Avid wanted things to remain arcane so they could charge high fees for support and training. But if this is still the case, I hope they realize it's not going to get them anywhere. These days training and information must be free, plain and simple, to continue building an effective user-base.

     

     

     

  • Sun, Feb 8 2009 1:01 PM In reply to

    • cuervo
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    Re: CC and 10 bit color

    amen, brother(s)

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  • Sun, Feb 8 2009 8:35 PM In reply to

    • Red Ochre
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    Re: CC and 10 bit color

    I'm not find any options under color crrection settings that would alter my how I measure my color levels. Still confused.

  • Sun, Feb 8 2009 9:25 PM In reply to

    • cuervo
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    Re: CC and 10 bit color

    As far as I know, the only choice you have is whether you use a 10-bit codec or not. All DNxHD codecs that have 10-bit capability are labelled with an "X" designation.

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  • Wed, Feb 11 2009 3:25 PM In reply to

    • sean90291
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    Re: CC and 10 bit color

    I remember this coming up before and didn't fully understand it.

    As my faulty memory recalls, Avid always color corrects in 10 bit. The 8 bits indicated in the CC settings is what Avid shows you in the monitor. That is, you're viewing 8 bit. But still coloring in 10 bit.

    Anyone else remember this little bit of arcana? Or am I imagining it.

     

     

     

  • Fri, Feb 13 2009 11:56 PM In reply to

    • jwrl
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    Re: CC and 10 bit color

    As stated earlier in this thread, Avid grades internally in 12-bit.  If you select green/green mode my understanding is that the end result will be truncated to 8-bit, whereas if you select green/10 it's truncated to 10-bit.

    Green/10 is achieved in colorgrade mode by clicking on the green button at the bottom left of the timeline.  The green button will change to show the value 10.  The tools will still show a 0 to 256 range for interface consistency, but you are then definitely grading and outputting in 10-bit.

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  • Sat, Feb 14 2009 2:35 AM In reply to

    • vvp
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    Re: CC and 10 bit color

    It would really be helpful at this point to have someone from Avid clarify this subject once and for all ... rather than leaving people confused and frustrated ... hint ... hint ... Avid ...

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  • Sat, Feb 14 2009 7:43 AM In reply to

    • jwrl
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    Re: CC and 10 bit color

    vvp:

    It would really be helpful at this point to have someone from Avid clarify this subject once and for all ... rather than leaving people confused and frustrated ... hint ... hint ... Avid ...

    What's wrong with the following?

    Abeyta:

    Avid CC is using 12 bit color space. Below is from the Avid help guide. I think you need to change the units in the CC settings to measure the 10bit.

    The options for measuring units available in the Correction Mode Settings dialog box are a convenience that allows you to make adjustments using the units that are most useful or familiar to you. When your application makes the color correction adjustments, it always uses the 12-bit RGB color space and always works with the same degree of accuracy.

    I would have thought that was clear enough.

     

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