Latest post Mon, Dec 8 2008 5:48 AM by Ra-ey Saleh. 12 replies.
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  • Thu, Dec 4 2008 2:59 AM

    • TCurren
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    And the nomination goes to...

    I've been giving thought lately to the future of Symphony. With Greg Staten
    leaving Avid,
    there isn't really an active user of the color corrector involved in product
    design anymore.

    This of course isn't very promising for a product that once was the leader in it's area. So I started looking around for who I would like to see as a replacement for Greg at Avid. I think I've come up with the perfect candidate. (drum roll please)

    I nominate Steve Hullfish. I can't think of a better person for the position.
         He is intimately familiar with post all the way through finishing.
         He literally wrote the book(s) on color correction.
         He understands the Avid product from a historical and current perspective.
         And he has the best temperament for dealing with corporate chaos in any editor I've met.

    Look at the good Frank has done at Avid so far. Imagine Steve on that team also.

    Of course the inverse of this would be Frank and Marianna leave, which would be devastating at this point in the game.

    Just meandering thoughts....

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

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  • Thu, Dec 4 2008 3:54 AM In reply to

    Re: And the nomination goes to...

    Great choice. Back to basics. A editor refined by editors for editors.

  • Thu, Dec 4 2008 6:02 AM In reply to

    Re: And the nomination goes to...

    He would be a perfect choice, wonder if he'd accept the job...

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  • Thu, Dec 4 2008 4:30 PM In reply to

    • Abeyta
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    Re: And the nomination goes to...

    I just finished reading Steve Hullfish's book on color correction and think he would be perfect for the job. The Symphony color corrector is great but it needs some updating to be more comparable with some of the higher end color correction tools out there. I would like to see things like vignetting or power windows, garbage mattes and bigger better internal scopes for starters. Maybe even individual setup, gamma, gain sliders for each Red, Green and Blue channels would be nice too.  

    Mac Pro 2013 6 Core 3.5ghz, MC Symphony 8.7, 16GB RAM, D700, OS 10.10.5, Ultrastudio 4K, Pegasus2 R6 12TB [view my complete system specs]

     

    Derrick Abeyta | Blu Pixel

    Phoenix, Arizona

    www.blupixelpost.com

     

  • Thu, Dec 4 2008 5:48 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: And the nomination goes to...

    And Steve is very aware of those shortcomings.

    Whoever they hire for this position will speak reams about where the product line is going.

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

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  • Thu, Dec 4 2008 6:21 PM In reply to

    • Josh Petok
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    Re: And the nomination goes to...

    Ab-so-lutely spot on Terry. I think you're really on to something with your candidate.

    I'm not sure if this thread exists somewhere else, but I'm curious about what you'd like to see in the color correction tools on Symphony. Since Media Composer has gained many of the Symphony only tools (tracking, spectramatte, etc) I can only think of a handful of things that only exist in Symphony. Off the top of my head, I could only come up with these:

    - Channels

    - Levels

    - HSL for Highlights, Midtones, Shadows

    - Luma Ranges

    - Natural Match

    - Realational CC

    - Secondaries

    Some of these features are essential. Others, in my opinion, do not make sense for 20k extra. In an ideal world, what would you like to see in there?

    Thanks for your input. Fingers crossed...

     

     

    Symphony Nitris DX 6.5.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Dec 4 2008 8:25 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: And the nomination goes to...

    jpetok:
    In an ideal world, what would you like to see in there?

     

    Where to start... I've done this list so many times, but it just gets ignored...

    1: RT trackable matting, vignetting  or Power Windows, or whatever you want to call it. Available in the entire CC not just in the secondaries.

     

    2: RT noise reduction. When you drive up the gain, you get more noise. Every daVinci bay has a DVNR. We should have it in RT also.

     

    3: Ability to use a panel. At one point many years ago engineering had the JL Cooper working in demos. Time to get back on that track. 

     

    4: Built in frame store. This could be done by being able to store and or recall a single frame as a pict file from either of the two comparison windows in the CC. This way the actual freezes could be carried from session to session anywhere in town with very little storage used. This would be a big boon for series where you want to match to a previous show, or even within a show.

         Currently your only option is to grab 1 reference frame in each window. a PITA going ack and forth in the timeline and impossible between timelines or projects.

     

    5:  Ability to use a second set of relational parameters. Currently, you can use source tape, clip name, etc. If I have a tape that is green in the blacks let say, I can fix that by tape. Now every instance from that tape in the timeline that requires further adjustment has to be changed to segment mode (see 5-A below) so it doesn't affect the rest of the tape.

         What should happen is I set the main adjustment by tape, then I can still apply corrections by source clip name, master clip etc. and only effect the related clips, not the rest of the tape. I would be willing to give up the second set of parameters (timeline and segment mode) to have all the parameters available there. (In reality, if you wanted to adjust the entire timeline, you would do it with a CC effect on an upper track so that you don't unrender your entire timeline.

     

    5A: WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHANGE THE MODE SELECTION (by tape, source clip name, etc) BY THE KEYBOARD. That is one of the common actions and I still have to do that with the mouse (or tablet in my case).

     

    6: 4:4:4 and 2K!!!!! Need I say more?

     

    As for Spectramatte, the Ultimate RT chip was more effective. Bring that back!

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

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  • Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:23 AM In reply to

    • Josh Petok
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    Re: And the nomination goes to...

    TCurren:

    1: RT trackable matting, vignetting  or Power Windows, or whatever you want to call it. Available in the entire CC not just in the secondaries.

    I would also like to see a defocus in the secondaries. Haven't we had that in 3D warp for years now?

     

    TCurren:

    3: Ability to use a panel. At one point many years ago engineering had the JL Cooper working in demos. Time to get back on that track.

    That would be huge. Along with that, the hue offsets should perform more like color or colorista.

    Thank you for your input. I sincerely hope someone at Avid heard all that.

    Symphony Nitris DX 6.5.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Dec 5 2008 7:24 AM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: And the nomination goes to...

    jpetok:
    Thank you for your input. I sincerely hope someone at Avid heard all that.

     

    Steve Bayes had that list, plus more. Greg Staten had that list, plus more... :-(

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

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  • Sat, Dec 6 2008 10:25 PM In reply to

    • thmpr
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    Re: And the nomination goes to...

    I've read the list here of what everybody would like from Symphony CC and I feel a common bond of frustration, havn't we ALL wanted just a litle more flexibility from SN CC.

    I've gone and done something about it, I've ordered a DS v10, here goes, two years of frustration learning another piece of kit, but it just might be rewarding in the long run!

    DS 10.3,DUAL-LINK HP8600 XP64 /-/ R.I.P, you will be sadly missed/-/ MC 7.0.2 HP8600 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Dec 8 2008 12:00 AM In reply to

    Re: And the nomination goes to...

    I for one find the Symph CC a far better CC than DS in Real World use.

    There's no Match Color, no Decast, no Relationship grading, and the whole adjusting tangents drives me insane on the DS.  Whilst on paper the DS CC is better (true 10-bit software processing, 2k, Mask input etc...) I find working on it for a standard HD show a lot more cumbersome.  If speed is important, you can rock through a show on Nitris.

    I think you might be a little disappointed with the DS (though I'm sure I'm about to be shot down by DS operators now...).

     

    As for my vote for Symph improvements...

    '1: RT trackable matting, vignetting  or Power Windows, or whatever you want to call it. Available in the entire CC not just in the secondaries'

    THIS WOULD BE PRETTY AMAZING.  NO MORE COPYING THE SAME SHOT ON V2 AND CUTTING HOLES...

    '2: RT noise reduction.'

    AGAIN, A HUGE BENEFIT.  AT THE MINUTE I USE SAPPHIRE, TO VARYING DEGREES OF SUCCESS.

    '4: Built in framestore.'

    I ACTUALLY ARGUED FOR THE FRAMESTORE CAPABILITY IN THE FEATURE REQUESTS RECENTLY, NOT JUST IN THE CC.  WAS A GREAT LINEAR SUITE INVENTION.

    '5:  Ability to use a second set of relational parameters.'

    AGREED.

    'I would also like to see a defocus in the secondaries. Haven't we had that in 3D warp for years now?'

    I THINK THE 3D DEFOCUS IS PRETTY HAM-FISTED.  WE'D NEED ONE WITH A LOT MORE SUBTELTY AND DIFFERENT WAYS OF DEFOCUSING... THINK SAPPHIRE AS A TEMPLATE (I.E. GAUSSIAN, BOX, TRIANGLE FILTERS).

    'As for Spectramatte, the Ultimate RT chip was more effective. Bring that back!'

    I LOVED ULTIMATTE, BUT SPECTRAMATTE JUST ROCKS.  IT NEEDS A FEW MORE IMPROVEMENTS, I.E. ABILITY TO 'CHOKE' MATTES, GARBAGE MATTE CAPABILITY, AND ULTIMATTE/BORIS'S WAY OF ADDING TO THE SELECTIONS OF WHAT YOU KEY OUT/IN (THIS WAS GREAT!), BUT THE SPILL SCOPE IN ITSELF IS GENIUS, AND I FIND I CAN GET A LOT BETTER KEYS WITH SPECTRAMATTE THEN I EVER DID WITH ULTIMATTE.

     

    Ra-ey

    Symphony Nitris v7, Media Composer v7, Artist Color, ISIS v4.1, Unity MediaNetwork v5.4, Sapphire v6.1, Boris Continuum Complete v8.1.1, AvidFX... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Mon, Dec 8 2008 4:02 AM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: And the nomination goes to...

    Here's another one for the CC. When you add the hole cutting ability, please allow us to select insise OR outside of the selection. And while you're at it, put that in every effect with selection ability like the paint tool.

     

    Ra-ey Saleh:
    I think you might be a little disappointed with the DS (though I'm sure I'm about to be shot down by DS operators now...).

     

         Join the club... but you're right. The relational aspect alone kicks ass as a timesaver.

     

    Ra-ey Saleh:
    I LOVED ULTIMATTE, BUT SPECTRAMATTE JUST ROCKS.  IT NEEDS A FEW MORE IMPROVEMENTS, I.E. ABILITY TO 'CHOKE' MATTES, GARBAGE MATTE CAPABILITY,

     

         How about the ability to color correct the foreground or background independently?

         How about the ability to reset parameters by clicking the purple button for that parameter like every other Avid effect?

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

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  • Mon, Dec 8 2008 5:48 AM In reply to

    Re: And the nomination goes to...

    TCurren:

     

    Ra-ey Saleh:
    I LOVED ULTIMATTE, BUT SPECTRAMATTE JUST ROCKS.  IT NEEDS A FEW MORE IMPROVEMENTS, I.E. ABILITY TO 'CHOKE' MATTES, GARBAGE MATTE CAPABILITY,

     

         How about the ability to color correct the foreground or background independently?

         How about the ability to reset parameters by clicking the purple button for that parameter like every other Avid effect?

    If you Promote the SpectraMatte to 3D, you can independently grade the Foreground and Background.

    It also has the 'Invert Key' option suddenly in the SPILL parameters (which should be in the normal SpectraMatte parameters!) and by upgrading it, you can reset any parameter by ALT+clicking the parameter's Enable button, as normal.

    Also by upgrading you have access to all the usual 3D parameters (just like you had in Ultimatte), and can even Erode/Expand the Matte, which is as close as Avid comes to "choking".

     

    Symphony Nitris v7, Media Composer v7, Artist Color, ISIS v4.1, Unity MediaNetwork v5.4, Sapphire v6.1, Boris Continuum Complete v8.1.1, AvidFX... [view my complete system specs]

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