Latest post Tue, Feb 8 2011 8:10 AM by BobbyMurcerFan. 36 replies.
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  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 1:57 PM

    not really 10bit?

    Has anyone EVER managed to pass 10bit video files into (not digitise) MC? I have tested this every few months for the last few years and have never managed to NOT truncate to 8bits...

    Even metafuze does not pretend it can create 10bit media.

    I have used DF, AE, and recently Redcine to try and create media that on import will retain the full 10bits.

    Up till now it was not such a big deal but now with our 2 red cameras it is a disaster for workflow and quality.

    Please prove me wrong!!!

    Michael Lindsay

    PS other applications can use 10bit quicktimes. Actualy all other aplications can. PLEASE!!

  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 3:10 PM In reply to

    • BLKDOG
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    Re: not really 10bit?

     Is your media type set to OMF or MXF?

    Project Manager, Avid Professional Services - Americas [view my complete system specs]

    In agreement, Unity. In Disagreement, Discussion. In all things, Charity.


  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 3:30 PM In reply to

    Re: not really 10bit?

    BLKDOG

     MXF is the only file that has provision for the extra 2bits.

    I wouldn't make a mistake like thatBig Smile

    thanks for taking an interest

    Michael

  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 3:31 PM In reply to

    • BLKDOG
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    Re: not really 10bit?

     Exactly so, are we to assume you are using MXF then?

    Project Manager, Avid Professional Services - Americas [view my complete system specs]

    In agreement, Unity. In Disagreement, Discussion. In all things, Charity.


  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 3:35 PM In reply to

    Re: not really 10bit?

    Yes... MXF both types of 10bit (uncompressed and compressed)

     

     

  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 3:57 PM In reply to

    • robg
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    Re: not really 10bit?

    Michael16oz:

    Has anyone EVER managed to pass 10bit video files into (not digitise) MC? I have tested this every few months for the last few years and have never managed to NOT truncate to 8bits...

     

    Please provide a little more information about your test:

    What video format are you working with (e.g. 1080p 23.976)?

    What file format / codec are you importing from (e.g. TIFF 16-bit uncompressed)?

    What version of MC are you using?

    What resolution in MC (e.g. DNxHD 220x, 1:1 10-bit)?

    What file format / codec are you exporting to?

    How are you checking to see if the file has retained the full 10 bits?

    - Rob

     

  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 4:13 PM In reply to

    Re: not really 10bit?

    You should set your effect rendering to always render to 10-bit because as far as I can tell Avid treats 10-bit as an "effect".

  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 5:10 PM In reply to

    Re: not really 10bit?

    robg:

    Please provide a little more information about your test:

    What video format are you working with (e.g. 1080p 23.976)?

    What file format / codec are you importing from (e.g. TIFF 16-bit uncompressed)?

    What version of MC are you using?

    What resolution in MC (e.g. DNxHD 220x, 1:1 10-bit)?

    What file format / codec are you exporting to?

    How are you checking to see if the file has retained the full 10 bits?

    - Rob

     

    Hello Rob

    I've tried in everything up to v3 (although my more full test where done in previous versions. I only did a very quick test in v3). I would typically be using 25p.. I have tried (mainly but not exclusively) QuickTime wrapped 16bit and 10bit files OR writing DNX 10bit media in other applications.

    I have tried lots and lots of different pictures but an easy to test one is a smooth greyscale gradient that only takes up the bottom 10% or so values within a 10bit file.

    I've just spoke to the head engineer in a Soho facility and his, independant form mine, tests show that Avid 10bit DNX produces non 10bit (worse than 8bit DNX) pictures.

    Lets turn the questions around again. Have you or anyone else produced true 10bit files in MC (any version any how)??? I suspect not and that is Ok.

    thanks

    Michael

     

     

     

     

  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 6:48 PM In reply to

    • GeorgeD
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    Re: not really 10bit?

     Michael, I have success using 16 bit TIF sequence from Redcine. I don't see the advantage going through Quicktime ... and hope that soon we will be able to import r3d directly and avoid the intermediate step.

  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 6:53 PM In reply to

    • mrynderman
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    Re: not really 10bit?

    Michael,

     

    DNxHD 220x really is 10 bit. What you need to do is render to DNxHD 220x from After Effects using the Avid QuickTime DNxHD codec. You'll then be able to "fast import" the resulting movie file into Media Composer. You can also import 16 bit TIFF sequences. However, other QuickTime movies created by non-Avid codecs, will always be imported as 8 bit today.

     

    Michel Rynderman

    Avid Technology, Inc.

  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 6:57 PM In reply to

    • robg
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    Re: not really 10bit?

    Here is the response I got from the lead codec developer here at Avid:

    DNxHD does support 10-bit. What you need to do is render to the Avid DNxHD QuickTime codec that is provided on your installation disk or can be downloaded from the Avid website. Render to that and select 220x. The resulting QuickTime file will be "fast imported" into Media Composer with full 10-bit quality.

    However, all other QuickTime imports, other than through Avid's QuickTime codecs, will come is as 8-bit.

    Also, as GerogeD menteiond, you can import 16-bit TIFF files into Media Composer as 10-bit

     - Rob

     

  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 7:25 PM In reply to

    Re: not really 10bit?

    mrynderman:
    However, other QuickTime movies created by non-Avid codecs, will always be imported as 8 bit today.

    So if you import a 10-bit uncompressed file or QT Animation as DNxHD x or 1:1 x it would create 8 bit media in a 10 bit container?

    Is this a limiation of QT or Avid?

    MC 8.6.1, Windows 10, ASROCK X99M, Intel 5930K, Zotac GTX970, 32GB RAM, Transcend 512GB M.2 SSD & Dell U2713H. MBP 2012 Thunderbolt, OSX 10.10.5, MC... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 7:30 PM In reply to

    • mrynderman
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    Re: not really 10bit?

    Uncompressed TIFF 10 bit files will import as 10 bit.

    Today, QT Animation will import as 8 bit stored in a 10 bit container..

  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 8:12 PM In reply to

    Re: not really 10bit?

    Michel

    Thanks for posting!

    I just tested with 16bit Tiff sequence and yes it does work... (there is hope!!).

    However:

    I just tried with AE exporting out a DNX 10bit 220 or uncompressed (all at 25p)

    Yes there is a difference between 8 and 10. Unfortunately 8bit is better. Yes there is banding but at least it isn't covered in what looks like nasty green dithering. The green component doesn't push out very far on my scopes but it is there. Now all this noise partly masks the banding but ultimately its still there and I would have to guess it is NOT 10bit.

    (without a Grade 1 monitor, a good scope and a critical pair of eyes you may miss this stuff)

    Unfortunately I don't think I can use a Tiff workflow (yes it was 10bit). Quicktime files or DPX (pretty much the industry standard for 10bit) is what I need.

    Michael Lindsay

    PS Michel if somebody from Avid Poland st wants to come around and look that would be good.

     

     

     

     

  • Fri, Aug 1 2008 8:37 PM In reply to

    Re: not really 10bit?

    I just examined the 10bit file from the 16bit Tiff sequence.

    Yes it is not 8bit...??? 10bit? not convinced .. I will do the maths (a bit of a struggle for me) and produce a gradient that will allow me to count exactly.

    If ONLY metafuze could create 10bit media????

    regards

    Michael Lindsay

    PS Just bought a symphony!! please let it not just be a ofline machine.

     

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