Latest post Fri, Feb 20 2009 8:10 PM by montaukproject. 124 replies.
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  • Thu, Jun 12 2008 7:28 AM In reply to

    • lalittle
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    Re: Graphics Card Question

    NfoRcErX:
    What someone else mentioned, that not all Geforce's have Quadro matches is a very good call and might be the true problem because you have to officially modify driver installs along with Rivatuner to actually get the computer to recognize the specific card.

    One thing that still confuses me is how to figure out exactly which Quadro matches your Geforce given that there are more than one matches when just using the "G" number.  For example, using the techARP example, the Geforce 8800 GTS 320 matches the Quadro 4600 because they're both "G80."  There are OTHER G80 cards in the list, however, so how does one know which one is the correct one?

    Also, depending on the card, some of the hardware specs are different between a Geforce and its Quadro equivalent.  For example, the Geforce 8800 GTS 320 has "20 ROPs" compared to the Quadro 4600's "24 ROP's."  There are other differences with other "equivalent" cards, such as 112 Vertex Shaders vs 128 Vertex Shaders, etc.  Are these slight "mismatches" in the card's capabilities a potential problem?

    Thanks,

    Larry

  • Thu, Jun 12 2008 7:35 AM In reply to

    • lalittle
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    Re: Graphics Card Question

    cd419:

    I was crashing at the ACPL effects step when loading MC 3.0 on my Vista 64 system with a 9800gtx 512mb.  I remedied the situation by using the RivaTUNER application and modifying my OpenGL driver settings to force OpenGL v1.5 been running flawlessy on a SD project ever since. 

     

    So you forced a "downgrade" to an older OpenGL version.  I wonder if there are other settings in Rivatuner that might also fix the issues with Avid.  It seems like an OpenGL "downgrade" could potentially cause other problems that haven't surfaced for you yet.  Does Rivatuner offer a lot of other settings that might be worth trying?

    Thanks for sharing the information,

    Larry

  • Thu, Jun 12 2008 5:05 PM In reply to

    Re: Graphics Card Question

    "Also, depending on the card, some of the hardware specs are different between a Geforce and its Quadro equivalent."

     

    .- Of course they are different, but because pro features in GEforce's chipsets are either blocked or crippled.

    With Rivatuner and a SUITABLE geforce you can unblock and activate pro features, even shaders and pipelines.

    Because some Quadro's features are hardwired, You won't get a perfect Quadro with Rivatuner, but close enough.

    Of course, there are also Hardware and even Bios modifications, but they are very complicated and risky.

    Again, success depends on what Geforce card flavor and make you are modifiying.

    Lenovo E32 ThinkStation Intel Xeon E3-1245,16GB RAM, Nvidia Quadro 600 (1 GB), Windows 10 Pro x64 (up to date) USB 3.0, Lite-On SSD 256GB System Drive... [view my complete system specs]

    Remembering my friend Larry Rubin

    "Art can't exist without Craft"

  • Thu, Jun 12 2008 5:18 PM In reply to

    • grayboy
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    Re: Graphics Card Question

    I will just add another thumbs up for the 7950.  It seems to be ok with 1080i footage and all the sd projects I have looked at seem to play nice.

    MC ver3. HPxw8400 Intel R Xeon quad core 5150@2.66Ghz. 3Gb ram. Xp Pro 4.6 Service Pack 2Pentium 2.8 GHZ2GB Ram Matrox Millenium G550 dual display80GB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jun 12 2008 10:26 PM In reply to

    • lalittle
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    Re: Graphics Card Question

    raspago:
    .- Of course they are different, but because pro features in GEforce's chipsets are either blocked or crippled.

    But what about things like "memory bandwidth"?  This is determined by hardware, and is different between the GF 8800 GTS 320 and the Q 4600.  On top of this, with some of the cards, the numbers are actually LOWER for what appears to be the equivalent Quadro then for the Geforce.  If this is the case does it mean that this isn't really a match, or does it mean that some aspects of the card will actually be lowered slightly with the soft-mod?

    With Rivatuner and a SUITABLE geforce you can unblock and activate pro features, even shaders and pipelines.

    Once again, how does one determine a "suitable" Geforce given that the "G" numbers match more than one card?  For example, the Quadro 5600 and 4600 are BOTH G80 (like the 8800 GTS 320), so how does one know that the 4600 is the "correct" match?  Do you have to use some of the other specs, and if so, which ones are the important ones to use?  The article at TechARP didn't address this.

    Thanks again for clarifying,

    Larry

  • Fri, Jun 13 2008 3:28 AM In reply to

    • CR8VDO
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    Re: Graphics Card Question

    Not true.  I know a few people using the 8800GT with no problems.  Avid obviously did little testing on this aspect of the 3.0 update.

     

    Windows 7 Ultimate (x64) Service Pack 1 (build 7601) Install Language: English (United States) System Locale: English (United States) Installed: 12/13... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Jun 13 2008 3:40 AM In reply to

    Re: Graphics Card Question

    But what about things like "memory bandwidth"?

    .- Let me quote-repeat myself

    Because some Quadro's features are hardwired, You won't get a perfect Quadro with Rivatuner, but close enough.

    Dude, nobody has pretended to turn a Geforce into an exact, perfect Quadro.

    If you could do that with a free application like Rivatuner, nobody would buy a quadro ever again.

    You get Quadro emulation, many pro features, more shaders and Pipelines.

    But not a perfect copy of a quadro.

    Just for the records, with Rivatuner you can also overclock any card (including the Quadros) so you can change clock and memory speeds, chip and memory buses and bandwidth and more.

    And I'd like to add that, though the Avid supposedly (I doubt it ) must have  a Quadro to run  (*), an app like Avid doesn't take any advantage or  improvement from a card like , for example, Quadro X3700.

    These cards are made and make a significant difference for High End 3D apps, with advanced shading, polygons and texture rendering,

    But for an editing app?   A good GEforce is powerful enough, even overkill.

    And a GEforce Open GL handling power and hardware acceleration would be more than sufficient for the needs of any NLE.

     

     

     

    (*) Not in Macs.

    There is only one quadro model available for Mac and you need to put  a second mortgage to buy one.

    Lenovo E32 ThinkStation Intel Xeon E3-1245,16GB RAM, Nvidia Quadro 600 (1 GB), Windows 10 Pro x64 (up to date) USB 3.0, Lite-On SSD 256GB System Drive... [view my complete system specs]

    Remembering my friend Larry Rubin

    "Art can't exist without Craft"

  • Fri, Jun 13 2008 6:47 AM In reply to

    • lalittle
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    Re: Graphics Card Question

    raspago:

    But what about things like "memory bandwidth"?

    .- Let me quote-repeat myself

    Because some Quadro's features are hardwired, You won't get a perfect Quadro with Rivatuner, but close enough.

    I think you're misunderstanding my question/s.  I'm wondering if there could be any hardware differences between a Geforce and its "Quadro equivalent" that might cause problems due to the drivers "thinking" that the hardware has certain capabilities that are not actually there.  In other words, I'm wondering how far "off" the specs can be, or more importantly, if there are certain specs that "can't" be different without causing problems.

    Or... is this a situation where a soft-modded card will simply "do what it can" with the hardware it has, and any difference in hardware specs will simply mean that the card operates a little slower?

    Also, one question that still has not been addressed is how one knows which card is the "correct match."  The techarp site only mentions the "G" number -- i.e. G80 in its example -- which it matches to the Q 4600.  The 5600 is ALSO a G80, however, so how would one know that the 4600 and not the 5600 is the correct one for the GF 880o GTS 320?  Is it a matter of trying to match up the OTHER specs as well?

    Thanks again,

    Larry

    PS.  I actually did a soft mod several years ago with the nvidia Geforce 2 Ultra card in order to get higher performance in some 3D apps.  If memory serves, in that case, the card was identical to the Quadro except for a single resistor on the card that made the card identify itself as a Geforce.  Some people actually cut the connection to make the card a Quadro, but the soft-mod was obviously a much safer process.

  • Fri, Jun 13 2008 6:55 AM In reply to

    • lalittle
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    Re: Graphics Card Question

    CR8VDO:

    Not true.  I know a few people using the 8800GT with no problems.  Avid obviously did little testing on this aspect of the 3.0 update.

     

    CR8VDO,

    Just to clarify, what were you referring to that you said was "not true"?

    Also, are you saying that you know of people using an 8800GT with MC3 WITHOUT needing the soft-mod?  If so, you're the first person I know of to report this, so I'd be really interested to hear more details that might help shine a light on how they got it to work.

    Larry

  • Fri, Jun 13 2008 7:59 AM In reply to

    Re: Graphics Card Question

     Larry,

      As far as the Quadro matching goes, my best advice is to try and find the quadro with 2 specific feature sets.

    1). Similar Clock Speeds to your geforce

    2). Same chip architecture

    The Clock speeds should be your first concern because if your drivers clock a card up way over it's maximum, not only will it underperform by trying to work under unattainable conditions, but it will also suffer from overheating and possible permanent damage.  Most drivers are hardlocked to reach a certain speed and you should be very careful when deviating from your original cards rated performance. Also, I know that you can flash card bios and make them work that way as well, the problem with modifying the bios is that normally video card bios also control voltages to the GPU, RAM, and Fans, and when you mess with electricity in a product that is very much locked in it's ways, it is easy to create disaster.

    With the chip architecture, you just want to make sure that you aren't trying to implement a feature that is currently non-existant on your PC.  If you tell your PC to use a G80 with Unified Pixel Shaders, but you're using a 7 series card that has normal GPU clock and Ram Clock, you are gonna be into some trouble and probably blue screening as soon as windows starts.

    As far as the pipelines go, drivers are written to take advantage of specific pipeline configurations. In my experience however, if you happen to have a driver that is slightly different it should still work fine, you just won't get a 100% match on performance for what a Quadro would normally get.  The last time I did a full Rivatuner mod was before Nvidia started doing such convoluted quadros (I think it ws a Quadro 3000 or 3500), and it was easy to tell the difference because the only difference was ram allocations, but Nvidia would still offer a version of the card that was practically the exact same as it's geforce counter part.  In the end, I didn't get the same performance as a full-fledged Quadro, but I also didn't pay 2,700 bucks for a graphics card :-P.

    Honestly, if you can take time this weekend to just try to match the Chip Architecture and the the Clock Speeds for Processors/Unified Shaders/Memory, you will probably have a stable Quadro chip that works great with Avid if it works with Windows at all.  If it doesn't work, just make sure you have a rollback point created or the ability to boot into safe mode easily.

    eVGA SR-2 Classified, Dual Xeon x5680's (12cores at 3.33Ghz), 12GB Kingston Hyper-X DDR3, eVGA Geforce 480GTX, Dual Raptor 300GB in Raid0 (Win7 64... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Fri, Jun 13 2008 5:17 PM In reply to

    Re: Graphics Card Question

    I think you're misunderstanding my question/s.  I'm wondering if there could be any hardware differences between a Geforce and its "Quadro equivalent" that might cause problems due to the drivers

     

    ,- The drivers are exactly the same for both lines (Forceware) and is universal, for all cards despite the model.

    If something is not activated or not present, the driver simply does nothing with that part.

    And Rivatuner also uses available or present resources in a card. It can't use or modify something that does not exist.

     

    Anyway, with Rivatuner your OS see your card as a Quadro.

     

     

    Also, one question that still has not been addressed is how one knows which card is the "correct match."

     

    You have to do a research in the internet, that's what I do. There is info about it, use google.

    Lenovo E32 ThinkStation Intel Xeon E3-1245,16GB RAM, Nvidia Quadro 600 (1 GB), Windows 10 Pro x64 (up to date) USB 3.0, Lite-On SSD 256GB System Drive... [view my complete system specs]

    Remembering my friend Larry Rubin

    "Art can't exist without Craft"

  • Fri, Jun 13 2008 8:01 PM In reply to

    • Ari Zlatin
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    Re: Graphics Card Question

     No it will Not . I Have the same issue.

    ASUS PRIME Z390 MB, 32 GB DDR5, SSD DRIVE, EVGA GTX 1080, WINDOWS 10-64 bit Professional, 2k MONITOR [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jun 14 2008 5:14 PM In reply to

    Re: Graphics Card Question

    Looks like I'm going to need to hold off on upgrading to MC 3.0 until we've got some solid data on the performance of the 8800 GT.

    I had high hopes for this upgrade, but it appears it may be a no-go for me.

    Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 2.66Ghz 3 GB Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800 (2x1GB, 2x512MB;) XFX GeForce 8800GT 512MB 250 GB Seagate HD (System) 3x500 GB Western Digital... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jun 14 2008 8:04 PM In reply to

    • TommyAF
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    Re: Graphics Card Question

    Steeldestroyer:

    Looks like I'm going to need to hold off on upgrading to MC 3.0 until we've got some solid data on the performance of the 8800 GT.

    I had high hopes for this upgrade, but it appears it may be a no-go for me.

     

    I've been holding off as well but I'm starting to run out of time and I might have to just take the plunge.

    Media Composer 5.5.2, Windows 7 Home Premium, Intel Core 2 Duo CPU T7800 @ 2.60GHz, 4.00 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GT [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Jun 18 2008 4:25 AM In reply to

    • TommyAF
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    Re: Graphics Card Question

    Success!

    I ended up taking the plunge and ordering my software yesterday, and I was amazed to get it today.  Installed the program, and as I expected it wouldn't run on my native GeForce card.  I soft modded it into a Quadro NVS 290 and presto!  Everything appears to be working great now.  Thanks for all your help guys I definitely could not have done this without you!

    Media Composer 5.5.2, Windows 7 Home Premium, Intel Core 2 Duo CPU T7800 @ 2.60GHz, 4.00 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GT [view my complete system specs]
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