Latest post Tue, Mar 24 2020 5:00 PM by Mercer. 10 replies.
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  • Fri, Mar 20 2020 7:49 PM

    • GaryF
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    Avid versus Adobe, Davinci etc. Avid most expensive maybe not best

    First I hope everyone at Avid is doing ok. Next as a decades long user of Avid Media composer I want to make you guys aware of something. I would rather not learn other softwares but these other products are getting great and are cheaper. For less than a monthly subscription for media composer alone I can get Photoshop,After effects, premiere and all the Adobe products. For $299 I can get the total Davinci Resolve Studio or for free I can get a scaled down version which is an NLE and a color corrector. Avid is still the best tool for me for cutting series and features but all the interns at my facility use Premiere Pro. Please also note that I have cut a show on premiere and am dabling in resolve.  Get cheaper and thrown in more things. How about including the entire Boris package in with media composer for no extra cost. I am getting monthly subscription fatigue and will have to drop one or the other. You are the most expensive and maybe not the best. 

     

    Thanks

  • Fri, Mar 20 2020 8:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Avid versus Adobe, Davinci etc. Avid most expensive maybe not best

    I'd be intrested to know the current distribution of products but for sure Premiere is growing in take up.

     

    Resolve is the defacto grading solution that many premiere and avid jobs will use. But as an NLE its still clunky and problematic and media management is practically non existant. Not to say you can't get it to do what you want but its not ideal.

    The audio side of Premiere is still clunky and its got some other issues but the integration with the other tools in the suite makes it a powerful option.

    Avid still holds the ground for larger broadcasters that need the full integration like media central.

    Many users just have to use all those tools and to be honest if you run a business model that $299 a year is a killer is it really viable? 

    These ar the tools of our trade and good tools cost money. I spend probably 8 times that on colour laser toner every year!

    I've stuck with Avid because I want an NLE from a company that just makes NLEs My worry on BlackMagic and Adobe is that they do an Apple at some point in the future and turn their back on the Broadcast market.

     

    Of course if Avid folds then you ar no better off but at least with Avid I can open a 10 or 15 year old Project. fw other NLEs even try to support that sort of legacy access.

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

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  • Fri, Mar 20 2020 11:29 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: Avid versus Adobe, Davinci etc. Avid most expensive maybe not best

    GaryF:

    First I hope everyone at Avid is doing ok. Next as a decades long user of Avid Media composer I want to make you guys aware of something. I would rather not learn other softwares but these other products are getting great and are cheaper. For less than a monthly subscription for media composer alone I can get Photoshop,After effects, premiere and all the Adobe products. For $299 I can get the total Davinci Resolve Studio or for free I can get a scaled down version which is an NLE and a color corrector. Avid is still the best tool for me for cutting series and features but all the interns at my facility use Premiere Pro. Please also note that I have cut a show on premiere and am dabling in resolve.  Get cheaper and thrown in more things. How about including the entire Boris package in with media composer for no extra cost. I am getting monthly subscription fatigue and will have to drop one or the other. You are the most expensive and maybe not the best. 

    Thanks

    Gary

    Really sorry to hear that you may be leaving the Media Composer community, but you need to do what’s best for you, your customers and your business. If you don’t feel that Media Composer provides enough value for you to continue to pay for it, we’re sorry you feel that way, but that’s your choice.

    As for the other NLEs out there, we offer a free version of Media Composer as well, and we actually cost less than Creative Cloud (CC is $52.99 a month for an annual contract or $599.88 for a year prepaid, whereas Media Composer | Ultimate is $49.99 a month or $499 for a year prepaid – and we give you two months free when you pay up front, Adobe doesn’t even give you a full month free.)

    Regardless, we are always reviewing our pricing models and will take your comments into consideration.

    Thanks 

    Marianna

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

    marianna.montague@avid.com

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  • Sat, Mar 21 2020 5:43 PM In reply to

    • tpowell
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    Re: Avid versus Adobe, Davinci etc. Avid most expensive maybe not best

    Hi Gary. The best NLE for you is the one you know best : -)  Most broadcast television shows and series are done on Avid MC, as well as most feature films. The main reason is the ability to share media and media management, but also the fact that most full-time, professional editors are used to working with MC for larger projects. If you are a production company on a reality series with miles of footage and many editors working at the same time with the same media, there really is no other viable solution. If you are a company working on features or large single-camera productions, you care much less about the NLE, and much more about the work experience level of the editing staff. Many of the top editors are Avid MC users. This is also why the move from film (flatbeds and moviolas) was slow to transition, because the best editors were film editors, and that was more important than the systerm that they used. Also, Avid MC was built on a professional model of editing completed by the main editor, but color grading and sound sent out to better tools and more experienced specialists. Premiere and Final Cut cause great frustration when trying to "round trip" a production to ProTools or Resolve. However, if you are doing a lot of special effects, you might see high-end effects houses using Premiere, mainly because After Effects is a special effects workhorse, and round-tripping is easier. In my opinion, Resolve has a lot of promise, but can be quick solutions for the one-man band short projects. DaVinci Resolve has been the industry standard for color grading for a long time. I would say most color grading specialists use Resolve, and most big shows or features will use it for final color graading, also partly because of the best talent for color grading are typically Resolve specialists.

    I do a lot of muliticamera editing (8 or 9 cameras), so I have switched to Resolve for multicamera projects, mainly because I love to be able to simply switch back and forth from color grading to multicamera editing. However, I am also editing a documentary with hundreds of hours of material, and I wouldn't even consider using anything other than Avid Media Composer. For a doc, the color grading tools in Avid are sufficient for my needs, but sound requires a round trip through ProTools. I have been using Media Composer from the very beginning (AVR-1), and went through the Lightworks and Final Cut phases, but always found MC the most solid and best for larger projects. Regarding cost, if I can save an hour a month using MC over Premiere, etc., it has already paid for the monthly subscription. I would say that I save many hours, even days, over the course of every month that I am editing. Anway, we all want to get more for less money, but my priority is for a solid system that fits my needs. Media Composer does so at the moment, but it is still just one tool, and many tools are often required to complete a production. Just my opinion : -)

  • Mon, Mar 23 2020 10:05 AM In reply to

    • pierreh
    • Top 75 Contributor
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    Re: Avid versus Adobe, Davinci etc. Avid most expensive maybe not best

    As everyone says, at the end of the day, it's the one you're most familiar and efficient with. Yes, DaVinci gives you a lot for $299 but let's be honest, facilities that use it in a grading studio will add a console ($20,000+ IIRC), proper monitors, powerhouse computer and so on. The price of the license is not much compared to the whole environment you have to invest in.

    But you're right, it does put some light on Avid's low end of the spectrum. When Avid introduced Media Composer First, we all hoped that it would be a "mini" Media Composer. Being able to access something compatible and close to Media Composer was going to be massive. Alas, Avid's management decided to not only cripple it a lot, but made sure the projects couldn't be shared/opened with regular Media Composer. That's an unfortunate short term vision. But maybe something management will realise one day, it's called the "foot in the door". And hopefully sooner than later, before our generation of editors is the minority and everyone else has learned and sharpened their skills on other NLEs.

    - Work: MacPro 2010 3.46Ghz 12 Cores 48Gig RAM, Mojo DX, 10.14.6 - Home: MacBookPro 2.5Ghz quad-i7, 16Gig Mem and SSD OSX 10.11.6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Mar 24 2020 6:33 AM In reply to

    • gstrudler
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    • Portland, OR
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    Re: Avid versus Adobe, Davinci etc. Avid most expensive maybe not best

    GaryF:

    Avid is still the best tool for me for cutting series and features but all the interns at my facility use Premiere Pro.

    If you've tried the others and still prefer Avid, I think you've somewhat answered your concerns. As others have mentioned, you have to do what works best for you, and you've stated that's Avid (and for good reason). 

    Also, the interns should be there to learn from you. There are numerous (I dare say many) things that MC does that Premiere doesn't, or at least does better, which is why most of us on this forum have stuck with it. Educate them on why you use Avid; most of them use PP because that's the only thing they've tried.

     

    Mariana:

    We actually cost less than Creative Cloud (CC is $52.99 a month for an annual contract or $599.88 for a year prepaid, whereas Media Composer | Ultimate is $49.99 a month or $499 for a year prepaid – and we give you two months free when you pay up front, Adobe doesn’t even give you a full month free.)

    And I would argue that the standard MC at $24/mo is quite cost-effective and has all the tools that most editors need (biggest difference being if you need shared storage access).
    GaryF:

    How about including the entire Boris package in with media composer for no extra cost.

    Reality check: I have the Boris suite (minus Silhouette) and it costs more per year than MC does (including MC|Ultimate).

    For that matter, my phone bill is also more per month than MC. So is my internet. I'm an independent editor with just a home edit suite, so I certainly understand how all the software costs add up (and all the other expenses too). However, as an editor, Avid is one of the last things to go if I'm looking to trim things.

     

    Pat Horridge:
    My worry on BlackMagic and Adobe is that they do an Apple at some point in the future and turn their back on the Broadcast market.
    BMD has followed Apple's playbook almost exactly, which is to buy up other companies and then slash the prices on the software so they can sell hardware, but up-ending the industry in the process. They are literally giving away software for free that just a few years ago was thousands of dollars.  I can only imagine the burden software-driven companies like Avid and Adobe have had trying to compete with that kind of "loss leader" marketing. OP, if you feel you can get the same level of work done AND with the same efficiency using another tool and can save some money in the process, I don't think anyone will blame you for changing. But make sure you really know what you're giving up.
    MacOS 10.14.6, Media Composer 2019, Pro Tools 2019, Nitris DX, trashcan Mac Pro (12-core), dual AMD D700, 64GB RAM, BCC, Sapphire, Mocha, iZotope RX, Sonnox... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Mar 24 2020 7:46 AM In reply to

    Re: Avid versus Adobe, Davinci etc. Avid most expensive maybe not best

    GaryF:
    Avid is still the best tool for me for cutting series and features but all the interns at my facility use Premiere Pro.

    And if the interns came to you and said, 'We're all going to quit if this facility doesn't dump Avid and switch to Adobe,' would you switch?

    For years people wrote variations of this same sentence only with 'FCP' where 'Adobe' is now. As it turns out, the entire post production industry didn't switch to a new workflow just because it was the one all the college kids used.

    Media Composer 2020.6 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Windows 10 Pro [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Tue, Mar 24 2020 11:47 AM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
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    Re: Avid versus Adobe, Davinci etc. Avid most expensive maybe not best

    At the end of the day it's what system pays the bills - and simply put I would be out of 90% of my yearly work (under normal circumstances) if I gave up Avid. I turn down PP work because it pays less and the material is of lower order. This is just the UK, mind, and it is not to say that were one to concentrate on using PP profesionally that work would not pick up but that still leaves the option for working in Broadcast and higher end work difficult.

    The current crisis will I believe lead to a longer term shift in remote editing and PP and others maybe more and more used but I am glad I work on Avid because after over 25 years on it professionally, I'm hard wired to it and still believe it's the best by a margin - but as I say this is secondary to were the work is for a freelance editor. Bottom line 95% of all high end broadcast and film is cut on Avid - it is not sensible to make it a personal choice, like MS Word or LibreOffice for a writer, for an intern who intends to become a professional editor.

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.4, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P3200/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Mar 24 2020 11:59 AM In reply to

    Re: Avid versus Adobe, Davinci etc. Avid most expensive maybe not best

    You know the best lesson for those interns. Give them a 5 year old Premiere project and ask them to open it and make some changes and re output.

    Then watch their faces as they try and open it on their current Premiere.

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hostred Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Tue, Mar 24 2020 3:28 PM In reply to

    • pierreh
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Paris, London
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    Re: Avid versus Adobe, Davinci etc. Avid most expensive maybe not best

    Mercer:

    The current crisis will I believe lead to a longer term shift in remote editing and PP and others maybe more and more used

    You're probably right... And for that reason, I'm glad I'm working on Avid at the moment. Right before confinement hit France, we copied all the mediafiles to separate sets of hard drives and each of us went home. Us, as in my co-editor, our assistant and myself. We now exchange sequence bins via email, no export time, no rendering. All the footage is in, but when we get the occasional new archive or music to add, the assistant does it then sends us via FTP the new mxf folder and the corresponding bin.

    Super easy and reliable. Good luck achieving this with any of the other NLEs out there.

    - Work: MacPro 2010 3.46Ghz 12 Cores 48Gig RAM, Mojo DX, 10.14.6 - Home: MacBookPro 2.5Ghz quad-i7, 16Gig Mem and SSD OSX 10.11.6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Mar 24 2020 5:00 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
    • UK
    • Posts 513
    • Points 6,545

    Re: Avid versus Adobe, Davinci etc. Avid most expensive maybe not best

    Exactly the same workflow here to... works flawlessly

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.4, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P3200/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]
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