Latest post Fri, Feb 15 2019 6:29 PM by Bryan Parris. 21 replies.
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  • Wed, Feb 13 2019 9:56 PM

    Color Space Issue on Export

    If someone could please help explain what is going on with my exports that would be great. Im only getting Legal Range colors with one combination of export settings, everything else is coming out full range, which is perplexing because I would think if I set it up as "Keep as Legal Range" and "709" my file would be within the legal color space. The only one coming out that was is if I export "Keep as Legal Range" and "RGB". Pictures for reference attached.

     


  • Wed, Feb 13 2019 10:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space Issue on Export

    Why not just change your project type (RGB or 709), do a mixdown with your preferred DNXHD codec, select full or legal range then export as Same as Source?

    Going through the old QT Engine is often a source of problems.

     

    MC 8.6.1, Windows 10, ASROCK X99M, Intel 5930K, Zotac GTX970, 32GB RAM, Transcend 512GB M.2 SSD & Dell U2713H. MBP 2012 Thunderbolt, OSX 10.10.5, MC... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 12:20 AM In reply to

    Re: Color Space Issue on Export

    Dom, the project type can only be set for YCrCb709 or RGB709, both of which assume legal levels. This has nothing to do with tue old 709/RGB import/export options.

    I do agree that is is not a great idea to do a Custom Export when you want to end up with a DNxHD QT file. Much better to mixdown or transcode inside MC, then export same as source. Faster and cleaner.

    I also don’t fully get why the OP is seeing what he is seeing happen, but it had me thinking the levels of the footage in MC is not legal. My first hunch would be to look at the Waveform Monitor.

    Finally, the Legal/Full Range setting tells MC to remap or not remap levels during the export. The setting in the QT encoder actually let you tell the encoder whether the source is to be left as is (709) or scaled from full range to legal (RGB).

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 2:41 PM In reply to

    Attached is the levels in MC. Theyre crushed slightly but not by much. The Legal/RGB option is displaying the exact same levels on export that is being displayed in MC. Not sure why the 709 option in the compression is crushing the black to full range. Feel like that shouldn't happen.


  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 3:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space Issue on Export

    Can you try avoiding the custom setting and making a DNxHD mixdown of your sequence and then exporting Same as Source Keep Levels / 709?

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  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 4:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space Issue on Export

    Sure, question first, it is my understanding that a mixdown isnt necessary if the sequence is rendered. I could either mixdown and do a same as source or render my sequence and do a same as source, correct?

  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 5:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space Issue on Export

    Attached is a grab with a mixdown to DNxHD 115, exported as Same as Source, "Keep as Legal Range".

    Still coming out of Avid as Full Range.


  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 6:38 PM In reply to

    • DonE
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    Re: Color Space Issue on Export

    Bryan,

    How are you looking at the levels of the QT exports you have done? Also what version of MC are you running?

    QuickTime Same as Source - Keep Legal should give you exactly what you have in your Avid. A quick export test on MC2018.12 of a 75% Color Bar with 100% White and 0 Black with pluge gives me just that. I am Linking the file back to Avid to check the levels. If I export Custom it is the Keep Legal with 709 setting that gives me very close to the Same as Source export.

    1x AMC/Sy 8.2.11-Win7 Pro 64-HP z800-dual 6core-24GB-Quadro FX 4800-Nitris DX QT775 NV340.84** 3x AMC/Sy 8.2.11-Win7 Pro 64-HP xw8600-8GB-Quadro FX 3700... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 7:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space Issue on Export

    DonE:

    Bryan,

    How are you looking at the levels of the QT exports you have done? Also what version of MC are you running?

    QuickTime Same as Source - Keep Legal should give you exactly what you have in your Avid. A quick export test on MC2018.12 of a 75% Color Bar with 100% White and 0 Black with pluge gives me just that. I am Linking the file back to Avid to check the levels. If I export Custom it is the Keep Legal with 709 setting that gives me very close to the Same as Source export.

     

    VLC currently with Digital Color meter. Im not certain linking back to Avid is reliable considering Avid works with 709. For example if I export one mixdown as Legal Range and one as Full range and link them both back in Avid they both are within legal range.

     

  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 7:13 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space Issue on Export

    Bryan Parris:
    VLC currently with Digital Color meter. Im not certain linking back to Avid is reliable considering Avid works with 709. For example if I export one mixdown as Legal Range and one as Full range and link them both back in Avid they both are within legal rang

    That's because when you export Same As Source, DNxHD QT's always stay legal _internally_, but are flagged to expand luminance levels when playing back in QT Player. VLC player, in me experience, ignores this flag.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 7:45 PM In reply to

    • DonE
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    • Joined on Tue, Aug 18 2009
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    Re: Color Space Issue on Export

    Bryan Parris:

     if I export one mixdown as Legal Range and one as Full range and link them both back in Avid they both are within legal range.

     

    For me, Custom export Scale to Full with the compressor set 709 Links back to Avid with full RGB levels (0-1024). When I select Compressor RGB setting the exports Link back to Avid with compressed levels, so a Legal / RGB export has Black well above 64 and White well below 940. A Full / RGB export Links back to Avid with Black at 64 with the negative pluge clipped off and White at 940.  

    1x AMC/Sy 8.2.11-Win7 Pro 64-HP z800-dual 6core-24GB-Quadro FX 4800-Nitris DX QT775 NV340.84** 3x AMC/Sy 8.2.11-Win7 Pro 64-HP xw8600-8GB-Quadro FX 3700... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 7:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space Issue on Export

    Adn that is one of the eternal battles with color levels. You have to first figure out if the export is at fault or the decompression/playback.

    With MOV, it is 50/50.

    MC 8.6.1, Windows 10, ASROCK X99M, Intel 5930K, Zotac GTX970, 32GB RAM, Transcend 512GB M.2 SSD & Dell U2713H. MBP 2012 Thunderbolt, OSX 10.10.5, MC... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 8:01 PM In reply to

    • DonE
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    Re: Color Space Issue on Export

    Job ter Burg:

    That's because when you export Same As Source, DNxHD QT's always stay legal _internally_, but are flagged to expand luminance levels when playing back in QT Player.

    This is exactly what I see. Linked in Avid they both (Legal and Full) come back legal. In QT Player the Full encode is expanded. 

    1x AMC/Sy 8.2.11-Win7 Pro 64-HP z800-dual 6core-24GB-Quadro FX 4800-Nitris DX QT775 NV340.84** 3x AMC/Sy 8.2.11-Win7 Pro 64-HP xw8600-8GB-Quadro FX 3700... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 8:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Color Space Issue on Export

    DonE:

    Bryan Parris:

     if I export one mixdown as Legal Range and one as Full range and link them both back in Avid they both are within legal range.

     

    For me, Custom export Scale to Full with the compressor set 709 Links back to Avid with full RGB levels (0-1024). When I select Compressor RGB setting the exports Link back to Avid with compressed levels, so a Legal / RGB export has Black well above 64 and White well below 940. A Full / RGB export Links back to Avid with Black at 64 with the negative pluge clipped off and White at 940.  

    Are you just AMA linking?

  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 8:39 PM In reply to

    • DonE
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    • Joined on Tue, Aug 18 2009
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    • Posts 78
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    Re: Color Space Issue on Export

    Bryan Parris:

    Are you just AMA linking?

    Yes

    1x AMC/Sy 8.2.11-Win7 Pro 64-HP z800-dual 6core-24GB-Quadro FX 4800-Nitris DX QT775 NV340.84** 3x AMC/Sy 8.2.11-Win7 Pro 64-HP xw8600-8GB-Quadro FX 3700... [view my complete system specs]
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