Latest post Wed, Aug 15 2018 1:29 PM by dougforbes1. 14 replies.
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  • Wed, Feb 3 2016 9:39 AM

    • Mondo
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    Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    I think its fair to say this is a feature everyone has been waiting for. It puts Avid on basically the same level as Premiere Pro for this functionality.

    In fact the implementation for group by waveform is pretty much identical to PP so it shares the same weaknesses and strengths. All my test were done on Macbook Pro Retina with thunderbolt storage so throughput is not a bottleneck.

    Lets start with the positives. It works and it works well. You highlight the source clips in a bin that you want to group, right click and choose group and then choose the waveform button.

    That's all the options you get - you don't get to pick the audio channel like you do in PP. Once you do that you must wait for the analysis. Here's the first negative. It takes over as a foreground process and you lose access to the rest of the application and it takes a while - 3 x 49 minute clips too 4 minutes and 26 seconds to analyse and group (2 x XDCAM EX and 1 x XAVC-L). I can live with that. Its no longer than PP. It also may be that some ofthe waveforms weren't drawn fo those three clips as subsequent test with just XDCAM EX clips were quicker.

    Next negative - if the clips in question don't already have waveforms drawn (eg AVCHD footage) that time multiplies out. Significantly. It took 11 mins and 53 seconds to prepare a 7 mins 42 sec AVCHD file then a further 21 seconds to analyse 2 x XDCAM EX clips of similar length. 

    So it would be quicker to transcode these clips first. Not the end of the world as the majority of multicam is transcoded first anyway. Doesn't fit my particular workflow but that's the luck of the draw.

    What I do see is a missed opportunity. I wish Avid had set the bar rather than simply hoisting it to the same height. If they'd offered to take a sequence of clips and create a grouped multicam sequence based on audio waveforms, all as a background process that would have set them apart from every other NLE. As that is the way most AE's work it isn't exactly rocket science. if they'd offered options to choose audio tracks and limit waveform analysis to the first two minutes of a clip that would have sped the process up.

    So a great new feature that could have been implemented better, but still worth the price of admission.

     

    HP Z820 16GB RAM Winx64Pro SP1/Xeon 2620 x 2/Quadro 4000 NitrisDX, Fiber client Unity client 5.3 Build 15440, 4 bay SSD dock (Addonics) Custom build: Asus... [view my complete system specs]

    John

    Can we go back to the way audio nodes used to be selected? Please? ie if you have audio nodes at the same time on selected tracks; then selecting 1 audio node selects them all at that time. Having to shift select nodes or add an in and out is time consuming and counter productive. At least make it an option.

  • Wed, Feb 3 2016 4:07 PM In reply to

    Re: Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    Mondo:

    What I do see is a missed opportunity. I wish Avid had set the bar rather than simply hoisting it to the same height. If they'd offered to take a sequence of clips and create a grouped multicam sequence based on audio waveforms, all as a background process that would have set them apart from every other NLE. As that is the way most AE's work it isn't exactly rocket science. if they'd offered options to choose audio tracks and limit waveform analysis to the first two minutes of a clip that would have sped the process up.

    So a great new feature that could have been implemented better, but still worth the price of admission.

    I'm glad there's now some movement towards easier multigrouping. Will continue to wait for the holy grail of instant multi-Grouping from a sync-map timeline. I do not understand why this is so difficult, or why third-parties are grabbing this concept away from us.

    But that's the history in this case.

    For years, I have used an early version of PluralEyes, and recently got a license to latest upgrade for a mere $45 (on sale). I have liked that the AAF i/o exchange is done outside MC and that it originates from an MC timeline export where  I can choose the audio channels with which to request sync. With DSLR shoots, I often get shots with NO usable audio waveform mixed in with DSLR clips that do have sync-able sound, so I appreciate that I can tweak those "stray" clips on an Avid timeline, putting them in rough sync here and there throughout my Pluralized timeline. I suppose that's still an option, using our new feature, after AutoSequencing results.

    Development of quicker, easier tools to make use of Syncmap sequences for editing/multicamera remains my #1 FR.

    Windows7 Pro; HP 820z, 16GB ram; Composer Nitris DX, Squeeze v8.5 Pro _____ Windows10 Pro x64 Dell XPS 8930 Special Edition Tower i7-8700 3.2 Ghz; 32GB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Apr 5 2016 6:21 PM In reply to

    • Francis Naud
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    Re: Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    Telegram!:

    For years, I have used an early version of PluralEyes, and recently got a license to latest upgrade for a mere $45 (on sale). I have liked that the AAF i/o exchange is done outside MC and that it originates from an MC timeline export where  I can choose the audio channels with which to request sync.

    I would like to start with pretty bad news: PluralEyes confirmed they have stopped the Media Composer support with version 4. And they will not support further versions than 8.5 with their 3.5 version.

    I've tested the new function today and I have to say I'm very disappointed: most of the things you want such a functionnality to have are missing. In fact, it takes me less time to do my Syncmap by hand and make my groups with in-marks then it took with the Waveform sync function.

    And to sync an sound card to separate footage, it is useless.

    So I think Avid has made a working function, but that is not yet correctly or fully implemented in the software: more like a teaser of what it could eventually do...

    Multiple systems running multiple versions with multiple configurations [view my complete system specs]

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    Francis Naud

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  • Tue, Apr 5 2016 6:47 PM In reply to

    Re: Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    Francis Naud:

     bad news: PluralEyes confirmed they have stopped the Media Composer support with version 4. And they will not support further versions than 8.5 with their 3.5 version.

    ... software: more like a teaser of what it could eventually do...

    Thanks for the bad news! lol, serves me right for clicking BUY, without a look at the fine print-- maybe they'll give me a T-shirt instead.

    I hope you are right about "eventually", we'll just wait and see. I agree about manual syncing-- it's just nice to get a head start. Now I'm wondering about the (former?) "standalone version" of PluralEyes and if it is somehow useful going forward. I gotta give Red Giant a call-- or get info from others here. 

    And thanks again for ruining my day! [:'(]

    Windows7 Pro; HP 820z, 16GB ram; Composer Nitris DX, Squeeze v8.5 Pro _____ Windows10 Pro x64 Dell XPS 8930 Special Edition Tower i7-8700 3.2 Ghz; 32GB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Apr 6 2016 2:42 AM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    Pretty annoyed with Red Giant over this. Hope avid has plans to implement a full solution.  We'll see. 

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  • Wed, Apr 27 2016 9:37 AM In reply to

    • BenoitM
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    Re: Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    Just fresh installed 8.5.2 and decided to give this new feature a shot...

    4  63 minutes clips (2 * HDV, 1 DNxHD120, 1 DNxHD36) from a live musical performance.

    The process took a few minutes to import/process the 4 audio tracks then started the analysis process.....forever !

    After a few minutes, the CPU looked pretty idle, like this:

    After 90 minutes wait time, I decided to go for the CTRL + . keystroke and went for my usual manual visual cue ("flash") sync procedure :(

    My guess is that the audio analysis engine had trouble finding similarities between the audio tracks, b/c they were recoded by different cameras in different spots of the auditorium with different recording settings (somewith manual audio level, some with auto gain).

    Just too bad that there was no visual progress -or failure- indication (the remaining time counter stayed at +/- 3 minutes during the whole process) , so I have no clue if after 90 minutes the analysis process was still trying to find a match or if the process was stalled for some other reason (I/O error, etc..)

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  • Wed, Apr 27 2016 4:33 PM In reply to

    • mtahir
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    Re: Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    This is what RedGiant said about PluralEyes 4 support for MC:

    "We decided to remove Avid support because it proved to be a very technically difficult host to support, which resulted in a high number of problems for customers. We strive to provide the same effortless experience on all supported host apps and we felt we weren’t able to do that for our Avid customers. Until we are able to provide a pain-free solution that truly supports the Avid workflow, we decided to discontinue our support."

    I presume PluralEyes 4 as a stand-alone application still has its uses?

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  • Tue, Sep 27 2016 3:22 PM In reply to

    • BenoitM
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    Re: Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    Gave it a second try...

    Better results, but I'd like to fine adjust the sync of one of the clips that was included in the group clip created with waveform analysis (sound is in sync, but the image is about 1 or 2 frames off because of the differences in cameras (type, position relative to the filmed scene).

    I believe this is not possible...or ?

    (http://www.provideocoalition.com/kicking-the-tires-on-avid-media-composer-8-5/)

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  • Fri, Oct 7 2016 4:15 AM In reply to

    • Mondo
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    Re: Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    mtahir:

    I presume PluralEyes 4 as a stand-alone application still has its uses?

    I think less and less. PP has inbuilt multicamera syncing by audio..not sure about FCPx as I don't use it.

    HP Z820 16GB RAM Winx64Pro SP1/Xeon 2620 x 2/Quadro 4000 NitrisDX, Fiber client Unity client 5.3 Build 15440, 4 bay SSD dock (Addonics) Custom build: Asus... [view my complete system specs]

    John

    Can we go back to the way audio nodes used to be selected? Please? ie if you have audio nodes at the same time on selected tracks; then selecting 1 audio node selects them all at that time. Having to shift select nodes or add an in and out is time consuming and counter productive. At least make it an option.

  • Fri, Oct 7 2016 4:22 AM In reply to

    • Mondo
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    Re: Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    BenoitM:
    I believe this is not possible...or ?

    I don't think so. In PP you get access to your multicam sequence (or syncmap) and you can adjust in there. You can also sync a sequence in PP. If you could do that in Avid you could offset your audio and video before you started, but I think Avid only multicam's clips.

    Like i said in my initial test results they haven't put much functionality at all in the feature. So if you have sound from a sound desk, synced with auditorium audio for example there is always a delay to the speakers.

    I still use PluralEyes and a macro to create my multicam sequences. Gives me much more flexibility.

    HP Z820 16GB RAM Winx64Pro SP1/Xeon 2620 x 2/Quadro 4000 NitrisDX, Fiber client Unity client 5.3 Build 15440, 4 bay SSD dock (Addonics) Custom build: Asus... [view my complete system specs]

    John

    Can we go back to the way audio nodes used to be selected? Please? ie if you have audio nodes at the same time on selected tracks; then selecting 1 audio node selects them all at that time. Having to shift select nodes or add an in and out is time consuming and counter productive. At least make it an option.

  • Thu, Jul 20 2017 1:39 PM In reply to

    • Ninanina
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    Re: Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    Very happy to find a waveform sync options in 8.5, but it's not as flexible as Plural Eyes, who doesn't work anymore when I export an aaf...

     

    Agree with you, multicam process should be absolutely more flexible to use (when you have a B-Cam 5D footage with one frame out of sync , for example) ; it should create whether separated group clips or a sequence such as Plural Eyes used to do, it could offer a better technic options inside avid (resync with one frame or 1/4 frame, for each cam ; integrate short keys to create automatic timecode copying from a sequence map to a aux TC without using third-part softwares ; etc).

    PLEASE, AVID, HURRY UP ! still pay my avid license every year, and i have been waiting for these implementations for years.

  • Fri, Jul 21 2017 4:13 AM In reply to

    • Mondo
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    Re: Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    Ninanina:
    it could offer a better technic options inside avid (resync with one frame or 1/4 frame, for each cam ;

    As long as you understand you can't move video by a quarter of a frame :)

    Avid could do what Adobe has done and implement audio time into the sequence editor so you can nudge audio dow to the sample.. you can always do this externally in an audio program. 

     

     

    HP Z820 16GB RAM Winx64Pro SP1/Xeon 2620 x 2/Quadro 4000 NitrisDX, Fiber client Unity client 5.3 Build 15440, 4 bay SSD dock (Addonics) Custom build: Asus... [view my complete system specs]

    John

    Can we go back to the way audio nodes used to be selected? Please? ie if you have audio nodes at the same time on selected tracks; then selecting 1 audio node selects them all at that time. Having to shift select nodes or add an in and out is time consuming and counter productive. At least make it an option.

  • Mon, Oct 23 2017 8:51 PM In reply to

    • BenoitM
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    Re: Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    Mondo:

    BenoitM:
    I believe this is not possible...or ?

    I don't think so. In PP you get access to your multicam sequence (or syncmap) and you can adjust in there. You can also sync a sequence in PP. If you could do that in Avid you could offset your audio and video before you started, but I think Avid only multicam's clips.

    Ha, now with the possibility to slip Audio in the clip'sSource Settings, I though my problem would be solved Big Smile

    Alas, as soon as I try to group clips by waveform analysis where one of the clips has slipped audio, the analysis process ends with an error: "AMPI subsystem error, ErrorMessage: RawAudioConsumer::Execute time out" [:'(]

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  • Wed, Aug 15 2018 1:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    Is it possile to make a timeline with just the first 2 minutes of each clip and then trim them out once the beginning is in place.  Youde have to do this seperatly for each camera break but it might save tons of processing time and effort for the machine

  • Wed, Aug 15 2018 1:29 PM In reply to

    Re: Group by waveform - new feature in 8.5 - test results

    Is it possile to make a timeline with just the first 2 minutes of each clip and then trim them out once the beginning is in place.  You'd have to do this seperatly for each camera break but it might save tons of processing time and effort for the machine

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