Latest post Fri, Mar 4 2016 5:18 PM by rodpaul. 13 replies.
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  • Tue, Feb 10 2015 3:02 PM

    Color correction with RAW files

    Hi,

    I'm basically picture-locked on an 18 minute short film and would now like to color correct on Avid MC. Before editing I transcoded and AMA-linked the Red Epic video files into Avid MC 8, but for color correction I would like to work with the RAW files in order to get as much image information as possible. How do I go about this?

    Thank you!

  • Tue, Feb 10 2015 4:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Color correction with RAW files

    Not possible once transcoded, and difficult at best if AMA linked as you do not have access to the source settings from within the color correction UI. So even the Baselight AVX can't access this from within MC. If wanting to color correct from RAW and have RAW course control on a per event basis, then a dedicated color correction tool like Resolve and others is needed.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Feb 10 2015 4:14 PM In reply to

    Re: Color correction with RAW files

    Thank you very much for your speedy reply!

    Could you elaborate somewhat or perhaps rephrase? I'm not entirely familiar with color correction UI, Baselight AVX and RAW course control, so I'm not quite sure what you mean.

    Thanks!

  • Tue, Feb 10 2015 4:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Color correction with RAW files

    RAW R3D footage has a bunch of controls that you'll want to be able to access for full control over the RAW image. MC only allows you access to these controls from within Source Settings. As soon as you're in the Color Correction part of the MC user interface, any and all source settings will have been applied before that part of the pipeline. So, simply put, you may want to raise the midtones when in fact the source settings have already lowered them. Also, the Source Settings, when used on AMA-linked R3D, will let you control the actual original R3D source, whereas the color correction part of the MC user interface will only let you grade the end result of the Source Settings pipeline.

    Your footage is in R3D, but MC's color corrector works in Rec709. This means that your footage gets converted to Rec709 first, then graded after that.

    In other color grading applications, you typically have all the source settings PLUS all the grading controls available for each shot at any point in the process. This means: no intermediary steps.

    It's certainly possible to grade this inside MC, but it is far from the most pure and most versatile workflow.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Feb 10 2015 4:42 PM In reply to

    Re: Color correction with RAW files

    So in other words, my only option would be to color correct in another program if I wanted to have full control over the RAW image? Is that what the common workflow would be, or could I have done things differently from the beginning?

  • Wed, Feb 11 2015 12:45 AM In reply to

    Re: Color correction with RAW files

    I guess my next question would be how can I relink back to the original RAW files when exporting, so that I can work with that in a program like Resolve? What would be the workflow?

    Thanks!

  • Wed, Feb 11 2015 1:16 AM In reply to

    • cuervo
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    Re: Color correction with RAW files

    MC7AvidUser:

    I guess my next question would be how can I relink back to the original RAW files when exporting, so that I can work with that in a program like Resolve? What would be the workflow?

    Thanks!

    http://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/roundtripping-from-avid-to-davinci-resolve/

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    M-Power Independent Video and Film Services, Sony PMW-F5--Sony FS700U--Canon 7d--Odyssey 7Q

  • Wed, Feb 11 2015 8:03 AM In reply to

    Re: Color correction with RAW files

    You would not export the footage, you would export an EDL or AAF and conform the cut in the grading application.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 11 2015 10:01 AM In reply to

    Re: Color correction with RAW files

    Job ter Burg:

    Not possible once transcoded, and difficult at best if AMA linked as you do not have access to the source settings from within the color correction UI. So even the Baselight AVX can't access this from within MC. If wanting to color correct from RAW and have RAW course control on a per event basis, then a dedicated color correction tool like Resolve and others is needed.

    Job is correct, Baselight for Avid can't access the debayer parameters of an AMA-linked R3D file - you would need go into the source settings. That said, if you debayer into a high-dynamic-range gamma like "Red Log Film", that typically encodes the large majority of the signal into something Baselight for Avid can reach and do a nice job with.

  • Wed, Feb 11 2015 10:42 AM In reply to

    Re: Color correction with RAW files

    Thank you for your reply! How would I go about debayering into Red Log Film? I'm completely new to this so some further explanation would be much appreciated!

  • Wed, Feb 11 2015 11:40 AM In reply to

    • cuervo
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    Re: Color correction with RAW files

    I'm nt a RED user, but, I was under the impression that in v8.3 one can access RAW CC as another one of the tabs in the "Source Settings"....

    see T/C 3:31 of this footage:

    http://provideocoalition.com/kmcauliffe/video/media-composer-101-advanced-4k-workflows-part-2-red-4k-offline-online-in-v8

    SYS1:ASUS Z97, Haswell 4.0GHz CPU, 32GB RAM, Quadro 4200 + GTX1070, Thunderbolt II -DNxIO-FSI CM171 ///SYS2:ASUS Maximus Extreme V, Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz... [view my complete system specs]

    M-Power Independent Video and Film Services, Sony PMW-F5--Sony FS700U--Canon 7d--Odyssey 7Q

  • Wed, Feb 11 2015 12:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Color correction with RAW files

    You can access via source settings, but not from the CC tools nor from the Baselight plugin. That's the point. You can sort of get there, but not too easily.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 11 2015 7:30 PM In reply to

    Re: Color correction with RAW files

    Job ter Burg:

    You can access via source settings, but not from the CC tools nor from the Baselight plugin. That's the point. You can sort of get there, but not too easily.

    I agree - if I were doing it in Avid, I'd experiment with a few shots which represent the underexposed/overposed extremes for the job and try and come up with a single debayer setting which encodes the majority of the dynamic range in a log space and then apply that to all the clips' source settings. Then I'd just grade on top of that use Baselight (which I help develop, to be clear) or some other effect. Only rarely would I ride the source settings to utterly optimise the debayer for each shot - it would be too painful otherwise. If there are massive variations in exposure etc, a separate grading system like full Baselight or Resolve may be the better way to go.

    -Martin

  • Fri, Mar 4 2016 5:18 PM In reply to

    • rodpaul
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    Re: Color correction with RAW files

    So to continue this conversation for 16 bit Sony Raw - I am interested in getting the maxium potential from my raw files from within Avid, if at all possible, using the Baselight plug in, which I have and like very much.

    First question - there don't appear to be many options in the source side of the source setting; i.e., slog3.sgamut3.cine gets to be applied to the file automactically as a default, even though the raw file doesn't have any intrinsic color space when recorded. I don't see any debayer options. Source settings on the input side go from REC709 through REC2020, DCIP3, linear full levels, Sony S-gamut3, Sony S-gamut3.cine, Arri Alexa all the way to "unknown." There is no documentation on any of these options from either Avid or Sony, so perhaps Martin may be kind enough to chime in here.

    I often apply a color transformation, the Sony Type A LUT in Avid for edit, and then remove all colorspaces and color correct from the log fotage using Baselight.

    Second question - I assume that everything, even in AMA with no rendering or transcoding, is automatically converted to 10 bit, thus reducing the value of grading from the high resolution camera file. True? And is there any advantage I can see in edtiting in an RGB project?

    Anyway, hats off to both Avid and Baselight as my Dell system plays 4K just fine with 1/4 proxy on - I need to remember to do all my effects and grading in full res, learned that the hard way. Just a little disappointing to lose all that colorspace in the raw files. The Baselight plug in along with the Artist Color surface makes for a powerful system, especially with a 4K monitor - I've got the 34" LG UHD monitor with the calibration software.

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