Latest post Thu, Nov 6 2014 9:42 PM by Pat Horridge. 3 replies.
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  • Thu, Nov 6 2014 6:59 PM

    • Jonathan Spafford
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    • Joined on Sun, Mar 25 2012
    • Los Angeles, CA and New York, NY
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    AMAing ProRes vs Apple ProRes

    Does anyone have any idea about ProRes vs Apple ProRes?  See screenshot of my bin attached.  I've searched and searched for this but have found nowhere that it's mentioned.

     

     

    I'm getting PR422HQ files from a post house that were created from SR masters.  The ProRes files won't consolidate into Avid or transcode.  They'll fast import though.  Nevertheless, they, the ProRes files, fail QC. Only way to get 'Apple ProRes' is to do a full transcode of the fast imported file back into Apple PR422 HQ.

    The 'Apple ProRes' files consolidate fine and have no problems passing. 


    Does anyone know what type of encoder makes these?  They swear up and down it's all being done through Final Cut but sometimes I get Apple PR, other times PR.  I can't find any piece of software that can export the just PR files.  Even ones that use the FFmpeg library. 

    I assume the case is some rack encoding system is using the FFmpeg library's version of ProRes instead of the one from Apple.  It also spits out a 23.97 file instead of 23.98.  (there is a difference.  Avid reads the 23.97 files oddly via AMA.  It starts video 3 frames behind audio)  The post house's solution for this is to bring it into CinemaTools before handing it over. 

     

     

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  • Thu, Nov 6 2014 7:44 PM In reply to

    Re: AMAing ProRes vs Apple ProRes

    You are correct, at least in our experience. Using third party encoders, mainly FFmpeg, creates non standard ProRes files that Avid has difficulty interpreting correctly. Most ProRes transcoders you buy from the web for the Windows platform utilize FFmpeg.

    There is also this method

    http://www.miraizon.com/products/codecsoverview.html


    QC failure is probably caused by the inconsistent fashion QT handles gamma. I still don’t understand why many broadcasters chose QT MOV as their deliverable format.

    23.976 is the exact frame rate for 24 fps with the 1001/1000 NTSC factor.  Similar to 29.97 is to 30 fps.  23.98 is often used as the short hand form to indicate 23.976.

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  • Thu, Nov 6 2014 8:36 PM In reply to

    • Jonathan Spafford
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Mar 25 2012
    • Los Angeles, CA and New York, NY
    • Posts 15
    • Points 155

    Re: AMAing ProRes vs Apple ProRes

    Yes.  I almost put 23.976 just so someone wouldn't say that.  I can get into the coding of ProRes. 

     

    I mean that when you open the QT in QTpro, it says it's a 23.97 QT.  (every other QT from Avid or anywhere really always says 23.98). Their answer to this was to open the QT in cinematools and fix before handing over.  Eh not really.

    Avid when AMAing the 23.97 files offsets the video by 3 fames.  If you import it, Avid will correct the timebase.

     

    Looking more into the problem, I looked at a early file I got before I started complaining, and it reads the video file as a 125/29.97 video.  I can only assume their encoder encoded the frames at 29.97 (lack of tri-level sync maybe?) and then locked it to a 23.97 fps timebase, or timecode track.  And why you end up with a 23.97 QT instead of a 23.98 is because of the initial encode.  Just trying to make sense of something that doesn't make sense. 

    I want to pin it down and be able to say you're doing X and X wrong and be 100% sure but it's hard without inspecting their racks and their ops. 

    (this is a large well known post house in Burbank btw)

     

    Varies... but this second... 10.8.5, MC 8.2, Mac Pro 12 core, 32GB RAM, ISIS5000 storage, Avid Nitris DS [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Nov 6 2014 9:42 PM In reply to

    Re: AMAing ProRes vs Apple ProRes

    I'd just bounce the ProRes files back and say they aren't Apple ProRes compatible.

     

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