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  • Mon, Jan 4 2016 4:39 PM In reply to

    • Rouch
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    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

    I thought in might be useful if I described my workaround for deadling with XAVC-S clips:

    I have Premiere Pro 6 on my computer because it came packaged with After Effects.  I've used it only for solving the XAVC-S problem.  I begin by bringing the XAVC-S clips into Premiere, playing them, and logging them.  I choose which ones to transcode to Quicktime DNxHD (I'm using DNxHD 145) by using command+M to bring them into the export queue of Adobe Media Encoder.  Unfortunately, this needs to be done on clip at a time.  I've found that it's necessary to select the RGB color space for the transcoded clips since the 709 space changes the gamma and brightness considerably.  The exported DNxHD RGB clips match the original XAVC-S clips perfectly (I know this makes no sense and I can't explain why it works, but it does).  I then bring the transcoded clips into Media Composer via an AMA link.

    A couple of further details: I've found that when I open Premiere, at least half of the time the XAVC-S clips have no sound: no sound shows on the meter and I hear none from the monitor.  The remedy is after opening Premiere to let the linking process fully run its course before doing anything.  First, I watch the information in the lower left corner that tracks the loading of the clips and indicates when it is finished.  But then I continue to wait until the activity LEDs on my (Raid 1) hard drive completely stop flashing.  I load a clip into the viewer, move the cursor to the beginning, and wait 10 seconds. then play it.  If I follow this absurd ritual, the clips always play properly for the whole editing session.

    To get the logging information into MC, I select the clips in the project window of Premiere and batch export them, producing a list that can be opened in Excel.  I use this list to copy the information I've entered into the MC bin (via retyping or cutting and pasting items by item) after I've linked the clips.

    All this is a big nuisance, but it does work.  At least it's simpler than using Resolve, where, I hear, the video and audio have to be exported separately, then reassembled on a MC timeline.  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get MediaReactor to work.  I'm looking forward to Avid's AMA plug-in, which evidently won't be available until late 2016.

    Media Composer 6.5.4 Mac OS 10.8.5 Mac Pro 12GB Ram 2x2.4GHz 6-core [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jan 4 2016 6:47 PM In reply to

    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

    Hi Rouch

      What problems are you encountering with the MediaReactor plug in?  Have you had a look at this info page:

    http://www.drastic.tv/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=220:mediacomposer-ama-link-sony-xavc-s-mp4&catid=59&Itemid=94

    If it has to do with specific file(s), we'd be happy to look at them

    Cheers, James

  • Mon, Jan 4 2016 7:25 PM In reply to

    • Rouch
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    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

    James,

    Many thanks.  I've tried this many times and always got badly stuttering playback from the AMA-linked XAVC-S file.  I looked carefully at the info page you sent just now and saw that I was supposed to choose MediaReactor from the dropdown menu before choosing the XAVC-S file (I had been choosing the file first, then choosing MediaReactor from the dropdown).  I followed the instructions exactly and again got a badly stuttering AMA-linked clip in Media Composer.  This doesn't have to do with specific clips but has been true of all the ones I've tried.  I'd be glad to send you the clip I just now tried if you tell me the best way to send it.

    Media Composer 6.5.4 Mac OS 10.8.5 Mac Pro 12GB Ram 2x2.4GHz 6-core [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jan 4 2016 7:47 PM In reply to

    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

  • Thu, Jan 7 2016 9:14 PM In reply to

    • teo3vs
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    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

    I suppose, just a supposition, that Media Composer would need to use more efficiently the horse powers of the GPU for decoding video instead affecting brutally the processor.

    Otherwise you would not explain why Premiere, FCPX, lightworks, and many other softwares like — say — VLC, quicktime, windows media player and any known web browser running on the most crappy device, can play out heavily compressed H264 long-GOP kind footage flawlessy, while with Media Composer a dual 12 core and dual Quadro K4000 GPU super powered machine could go down on it's knees to perform the same, say, "simple" task.

    You could espect to see that an heavily compressed clip needs more power to be handled in timeline, that would be normal... But not that it neiter goes in play in the viewer when working on an outstanding, cutting edge workstation, while a browser on a crappy mobile phone can perform that task seamlessly.

    Avid says "with AMA you can play every clip you want linking it like in Premiere and Final Cut", yes but then everything stutters like hell. I hope that someone is working on this...

  • Thu, Jan 7 2016 9:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

    teo3vs:
    I suppose, just a supposition, that Media Composer would need to use more efficiently the horse powers of the GPU for decoding video instead affecting brutally the processor.

     

    In general, yes. Avid needs to improve GPU compute utilization for MC.

     

    In this specific case I think it has more to do with a business approach than a technical one. Avid supports XAVC-L natively, which is the big brother of XAVC-S. Both are LongGOP H.264 based compression. Both support 4K and High Profile Level 4.2. XAVC-L supports higher bit rate and 10 bit.

    If Avid can play 4K H.264 based codec, it should be able to play XAVC-S as well.

     

    MC 8.6.1, Windows 10, ASROCK X99M, Intel 5930K, Zotac GTX970, 32GB RAM, Transcend 512GB M.2 SSD & Dell U2713H. MBP 2012 Thunderbolt, OSX 10.10.5, MC... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Jan 8 2016 9:07 PM In reply to

    • teo3vs
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    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

    Are you sure that Media Composer supports XAVC-L natively? From what version? I've never heard about it.

    I've worked in XAVC-Intra... I've tryed to edit in multicam with 9 XAVC-Intra channels also creating very complex timelines and it works on some top level workstations. However it stresses the processor really a lot.

    The formats as AVCHD, XAVC-S and generic long GOP H264, like Go-Pros, Mobile Phones, Consumer and Prosumer Cameras and so on... They really kill avid media composer.

    You could say that they are not professional formats. But I had to work with Go-Pros in many top level productions, it happens also that the journalist could have made a video with the mobile phone because you don't know why (and you would like to just link it, scrub and consolidate a little piece), everytime you send videos via internet from the field to the editing room you would use H264 long-GOP to optimize the given bandwith and there's also a platoon of professional-but-not-working-for-million-dollars-productions videomakers out there that does not work with just broadcast and cinema level cameras. For them using avid media composer many times it turns in something definitely masochistic.

  • Fri, Jan 8 2016 10:48 PM In reply to

    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

    My mistake. XAVC-L is still limited to AMA linking. My test footage was XAVC-I, misread as -L.

    I don't care much for labeling codecs pro or not. Specific technology are so fluid that its really hard to categorize many of them.

    In the end Sony needs to add XAVC-S support and Avid have better GPU compute support.

     

     

    MC 8.6.1, Windows 10, ASROCK X99M, Intel 5930K, Zotac GTX970, 32GB RAM, Transcend 512GB M.2 SSD & Dell U2713H. MBP 2012 Thunderbolt, OSX 10.10.5, MC... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jan 16 2016 2:46 PM In reply to

    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

    Hi All

      For those of you having issues with some of the newer XAVC-S QHD files and MediaReactor Single, we have put up a new version that resolves the issue.  For those of you that own it, thank you and please uninstall and reinstall the new version from our site.  For anyone who has evaluated, and wishes to do so again, please sned us a key request and we will happily get you a temp license to test with.

     

    Thanks, James

  • Sun, Jan 17 2016 10:45 AM In reply to

    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

    For many codecs, Avid uses Quicktime as a frame server. Essentially, it uses Quicktime to decode and pass the image on to MC. The problem is that QT is 32-bit. So it creates a very significant bottleneck.

    Other progams, like Premiere and FCP-X don't use QT as a frame server, so they don't have this issue. I'm sure there are other things, like poor GUP utilization, but relying on QT is really hamstringing MC, FWIU.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Sun, Jan 17 2016 11:27 AM In reply to

    • teo3vs
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    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

    Interesting. For example I'm an apple fan, but would not buy a new Mac Pro that has it's strong point in the dual GPU because MC eats only the processor and for example AVC-Intra multicam would saturate it very easily.

    So I find better a machine with powerful dual CPU, than a powerful dual GPU with MC. But with FCPX, Premiere and Lightworks usually I found that's better the opposite: a powerful dual GPU, than a powerful dual CPU, and less or more all kinds of video format runs smootly there, if not in timeline with effects, at least in the viewer.

  • Sun, Jan 17 2016 6:14 PM In reply to

    • TVJohn
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    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

    I think it has been evident for the last couple of years that a clean sheet of paper is necessary for the future. However, as clean sheet would likely have some operational differences with "classic" MC, one can imagine much in house hand wringing wanting to develop a new tech without breaking the customer trust.

    Apple had the guts to bridge to the new with its FC-X adventure.

    The smaller players like Grass Valley have a easier time with their clientelle as these folks don't seem too troubled by the occasional need to relearn certain operator techniques.

    Tough place .

    Dell Display U2713HM(2560x1440), AMD FX8350 8core, AMD 990FX mobo, 32gig-DDR3-1600, Quadro K620/GTX260/core 216, Audigy2zs, 1TB SSD system drive, 2TB SATA... [view my complete system specs]

    Using MC 8.4. Avid FX6.4, Vegas Pro 15/ DVD Architect 6pro, DVDit6.4proHD, CCE Basic, TmpGe Express4, TmpGe Authoring Works 4, DVDLab-Studio. Sony EX-1R, Canon XH-A1, GL2, GL1, Canon EOS 60D

  • Mon, Jan 18 2016 12:18 PM In reply to

    • switthaus
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    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

    TVJohn:

    one can imagine much in house hand wringing wanting to develop a new tech without breaking the customer trust.

    Apple had the guts to bridge to the new with its FC-X adventure.

    Avid would need to learn from the FCPX release.  Apple really screwed the pooch with that initial release: a new software that seemed to be mid-beta at best and EOL'ing the tried and true FCP7 at the FCPX release.  Can there be a better way to alienate the users?

    Now four years on, FCPX is a very stable and powerful software with a growing user-base.  But Apple handed Adobe a lot of frustrated editors who felt like they were stabbed in the back.  Really tough to get those users to come back (especially seeing that FCPX is a different way to work compared to traditional track-based NLE's) and Avid cannot afford to do that.  If it re-built MC from the ground up, I think it would look very simialr to MC of today with the changes mainly being "under the hood".

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

  • Thu, Jul 21 2016 2:03 PM In reply to

    • Rouch
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    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

    Can you give us news about the XAVC-S plug-in?  You mentioned it would be out in Q3 of 2016, which is now.

     

    Many thanks.

    Media Composer 6.5.4 Mac OS 10.8.5 Mac Pro 12GB Ram 2x2.4GHz 6-core [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jul 25 2016 10:15 PM In reply to

    • DStone
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    • Moderator: Avid Media Composer for Liquid
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    Re: Open letter to Avid (Xavc-s codec): can You ask to Sony ...

    I'm still wating to see if Avid will be implementing a native XAVC-S plug-in, or if Drastic TVs is going to be the final option. In the meantime I'm using hdcinematics Convert-V3 (the updated version of ClipToolz) to re-wrap my video. It's very fast (about 500fps on my system) to wrap the XAVC-S into an MP4. There's no transcoding involved at all, which means that MC can in fact edit XAVC-S now; it's just a matter of having a way of getting it into the system.

    The big issue is, of course, a doubling of the storage requirements if you want to keep the original XAVC-S media. Otherwise you can re-wrap to the hard drive directly from the camera (treating it as a USB mass storage device). I don't know if that will also entail losing metadata (on my list if things to check on).

    The trial copy of Convert is reasonably functional, and re-wrap is supported. You're limited to 2 files per session, so if you've got 100 small clips it will take a while to run 50 separate session. I opted to buy it on sale (and as of the date of this post, it's still on sale) to remove the clip limit.

    DIY quad core I7-4790K, 32Gb, NVidia GTX 970 4GB, Win 10 Pro, MC(generally the latest or the one just before), MC 7.x [view my complete system specs]

    Dave S.

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