Latest post Mon, Apr 28 2014 8:09 PM by ninok. 17 replies.
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  • Fri, Apr 18 2014 2:26 PM

    • ninok
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    XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

    Dear colleagues,

     

    I would really appreciate your help on the following question:

    I have a documentary shooted mostly in 1080p25 4:2:0 with XDCam EX 35Mbit, some videos were shooted with XDCam EX 50Mbit raster 4:2:2

    To safe the storage place (as i have ca 200 hours of video) we have decided to make all selections as well as the whole editing in offline, means, I will import the whole videos in their native codecs: XDCam EX 35Mbit or XDCam HD 50Mbits. These imported videos are highly compressed as well as the native captured format. My question is: how I will enable the online editing for color grading as well as the sound design in high quality files. How can I relink the exiting final offline edit sequence with the best quality files:

    - shoud I make an editing list and import only videos needed for the online editing in the AMC with DNxHD 180 and then link them with the final editing offline sequence?

    -or is there any better workflow as this one?

     

    I will really appreciate your help!

    Thanks a lot ans bes, Nina

  • Fri, Apr 18 2014 9:14 PM In reply to

    • Kao-Tai
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    Re: XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

    Hi Nina,

     

    I´m not sure I quite understood what you´re trying to do.

    ninok:
    I will import the whole videos in their native codecs: XDCam EX 35Mbit or XDCam HD 50Mbits. These imported videos are highly compressed as well as the native captured format

    If I get you right, you will Import der Material into your Media Composer in its native codec, right? If so, you won`t do an offline edit. Or are you planning to AMA Link the materail and transcode to an offlince Codec like DnxHD36 or maybe even an SD Codec? If drive space is your concern, then only SD codecs like 10:1 will reduce the amount ot needed space sufficiently.

    ninok:
    shoud I make an editing list and import only videos needed for the online editing in the AMC with DNxHD 180 and then link them with the final editing offline sequence?

    I don`t think you need to import material that was shot in a long GOP Format with 35 to 50 MBs with a codec like DNxHD185. Unless you´re doing a LOT of effects work you won`t gain image quality. You´ll just fill a large container (DNxHD 185) with a lot of nulls delivered by the source material. Just stick to the Format the cameras deliver and skip another reencoding.

     

    Sorry, maybe I don`t really get  what exactly you are trying to do.  If so please  elaborate a bit further.

    Best wishes

    Andreas

  • Fri, Apr 18 2014 11:33 PM In reply to

    Re: XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

    When working with XDCam, I generally AMA link to the footage and Consolidate to Most Compressed. This works great for stuff shot on XD discs because it'll give me everything as MPEG-4. If it's EX footage, I flip my project to SD and Transcode to 15:1s.

    After I finish the edit, I Relink the Seq to the high res and consolidate to Highest Quality. 

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Fri, Apr 25 2014 8:07 AM In reply to

    • ninok
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    Re: XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

    Hi Andreas,

    thanks a lot for your replay. Sorry, I'm too slow in giving my answer...

    Yes, you've got my question correct. But I do still have another one concerning your reply:

    Kao-Tai:
    I don`t think you need to import material that was shot in a long GOP Format with 35 to 50 MBs with a codec like DNxHD185. Unless you´re doing a LOT of effects work you won`t gain image quality. You´ll just fill a large container (DNxHD 185) with a lot of nulls delivered by the source material. Just stick to the Format the cameras deliver and skip another reencoding.

    The shooted material with XDCam EX 35Mbit as well as with SDCam EX 50Mbit is indeed a GOP format, but it is highly compressed. What ist the best Avid codec to "recompress" or to win the max quality for the online editing i.e. for color grading: isn't it right, wenn I import XDCam files i.e. in DNxHD 120 I win a better quality but won't have a large container with nulls delivered by the source material?

    In other words: what ist the best DNxHD to win the max quality from the shooted format without getting a large container with nulls?

    Thanks a lot in advace and best wishes Nina

     

     

  • Fri, Apr 25 2014 8:24 AM In reply to

    • Vilem
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    Re: XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

    In my experience:
    The safest way: AMA link to XD materials, consolidation into Avid media files - preserving native XD codec.
    Montage. Then TRANSCODING in the resulting sequences into DNxHD 180 and color correction. If your PC prosecutes XD codecs is the easiest way.

    Regards,
    William

    AVID MC2019.6 - dongle, HP Z620 - 2 x Intel Xeon E5-2620, Quadro P2000 - driver 411.95, RAM 48GB - DDR3, BM Intensity Pro 4k - 10.11, W10 - 64bit Professional... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 25 2014 8:32 AM In reply to

    • Kao-Tai
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    Re: XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

    Hi Nina,

    the image quality is defined by the recording format. You won`t get better looking pictures by reencoding them to a larger codec. So in regards of quality you´re stuck with what the cameras delivered. Every reeoncoding process degrades, or in other words reduces the quality of a picture. The extent of this depends on your encdoing choice. So keeping the original codec will result in preserving the maximum quality. BUT if you intend to do a lot of effects work with the material inside of MC then you should transcode to DNxHD because every effect will "reencode" the material and then a codec like XDCam will degrade faster then a DNxHD codec.

    Concerning color correction you also only have what you shot which should be a croma subsampling of 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 in your case. You can`t get more information into your system than theses codecs deliver. But I know some colorists who insist to get DNxHD files no matter what the camera format was. If that´s the case I would recommend this workflow. Import native into MC (only rewrapping no reencoding which preserves quality) then edit with these files. In the end do a transcode of your sequence to DNxHD (120 should suffice as the original codec only has 35 /50 MBits in this case)for the final delivery to the colorist.

    Hope I could be of some help. If not keep us informed.

    William was faster then me. I can only second what he´s suggesting.

     

    Best wishes

    Andreas

     

  • Fri, Apr 25 2014 11:14 AM In reply to

    • Vilem
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    Re: XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

    Kao-Tai:
    Concerning color correction you also only have what you shot which should be a croma subsampling of 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 in your case. You can`t get more information into your system than theses codecs deliver. But I know some colorists who insist to get DNxHD files no matter what the camera format was.

    Hello Andreas,


    in my experience, is sufficient for normal correction XD codecs, but in extreme lighting conditions, it is preferable to DNxHD 180x codec - allows finer tuning.

    Regards
    V.

     

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  • Fri, Apr 25 2014 11:29 AM In reply to

    • Kao-Tai
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    Re: XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

    Hi Villem,

     

    thanks for the info.I totally agree with you with staying in  XDCam being sufficient in most cases The only thing I would mention is that by using a 10 bit codec on a 8 bit source material you´re actually reducing the data rate for your material. Since you don`t have 10 bit source Avid will fill the extra two bits with nulls and at the same time keep the same data rate of 185 Mb. So in essence you loose bandwith.

    Best wishes

    Andreas

  • Fri, Apr 25 2014 11:53 AM In reply to

    • Vilem
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    Re: XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

    Kao-Tai:
    The only thing I would mention is that by using a 10 bit codec on a 8 bit source material you´re actually reducing the data rate for your material. Since you don`t have 10 bit source Avid will fill the extra two bits with nulls and at the same time keep the same data rate of 185 Mb. So in essence you loose bandwith.

     

    Ok, thanks for the clarification. In this case, the 10 bit unnecessary.

    I just question how it is when you select 10bit processing (10 bit green on the timeline)?

    Regards

    V.

    AVID MC2019.6 - dongle, HP Z620 - 2 x Intel Xeon E5-2620, Quadro P2000 - driver 411.95, RAM 48GB - DDR3, BM Intensity Pro 4k - 10.11, W10 - 64bit Professional... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 25 2014 12:07 PM In reply to

    • Kao-Tai
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    Re: XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

     

    Hi Villem,

    the x in DNxHD1085x stands for the 10 bit version of this codec. So by choosing it you tell MC to expect 10 bit footage and export in 10 bit. Was that your question? Sorry if I got you wrong.

     

    Andreas

  • Fri, Apr 25 2014 4:37 PM In reply to

    • Vilem
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    Re: XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

    Hi Andreas,
    To me it was about how MC handles the signal if the timeline will choose Green 10 to see if it's just for show, or even the final render is 10 bit. Think of it as an academic question, my eyes will not know the difference.

    Regards
    V.

    AVID MC2019.6 - dongle, HP Z620 - 2 x Intel Xeon E5-2620, Quadro P2000 - driver 411.95, RAM 48GB - DDR3, BM Intensity Pro 4k - 10.11, W10 - 64bit Professional... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 25 2014 6:23 PM In reply to

    • Kao-Tai
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    Re: XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

    Sorry I´m still not sure if I really understand your question. To be honest I´m not 100 % sure if I´m right withe the following explanation but I´ll try my best.

    As far as I know if you switch your timeline to Green 10 bit MC will do it´s calculations using a 10 bit base. So in theory you should get higher precision computing done by MC. I never really tested it though. If you´re using the built in color correction MC will do its magic based on 12 bit internally and then put it back in the timeline in your chosen 8 or 10 bit. So it should enhance the quality of your computations. But as being said, I never tested it. In my daily business most of my work is based on 8 bit HD Material. 10 or even 12 bit is not my everyday dish. So I can`t base my explanantion on to much real live experience. In the end I would tend to do high class CC outside of MCs grading solution. Solitary grading tools ar simply better suited. For my everday work I´m pretty happy with the built in correction.

    A long rambling with hopefully an answer to your question. Sorry for the length.

     

    Cheers

    Andreas

  • Fri, Apr 25 2014 6:48 PM In reply to

    • Vilem
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    Re: XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

    Thanks,
    I think sufficient answer.

    Regards
    V.

    AVID MC2019.6 - dongle, HP Z620 - 2 x Intel Xeon E5-2620, Quadro P2000 - driver 411.95, RAM 48GB - DDR3, BM Intensity Pro 4k - 10.11, W10 - 64bit Professional... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 25 2014 7:36 PM In reply to

    • ninok
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    Re: XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

    Dear William, dear Andreas,

     

    thanks a lot for your very fast replys. I was following your interesting discussion, but I can give my reply only now.

     

    I think, what I will do is asking the postproduction house, which codec eather the native XD one or the DNxHD they prefer for doing the online editing. Your answer, Andreas, to use max DNxHD120 having the native material from XD seems very coherent to me. What I still would like to know more detailed is your thesis, Andreas:

    Kao-Tai:
    So keeping the original codec will result in preserving the maximum quality. BUT if you intend to do a lot of effects work with the material inside of MC then you should transcode to DNxHD because every effect will "reencode" the material and then a codec like XDCam will degrade faster then a DNxHD codec.

    do your have any link for me to read more about? I would really appreciate it!

     

    I am sorry, guys, but what do you mean with "green signal in the timeline" - I'm a bit confused of it...

     

    Thanks a lot for your big help - I do really appreciate it! You are the best!!!!

    Best, nina

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • Fri, Apr 25 2014 8:11 PM In reply to

    • Kao-Tai
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    Re: XDCAM EX 35Mbit i.e. 50Mbit workflow on offline & online editing

     Hi Nina,good thought to ask the post house. I will try to find a link you requested. But I won't be able to do that today. Sorry. But I will try to give you the requested information. Hopefully till the  end of this weekend. I'm mobile now so all the best until tomorow.

     

    Andreas

     

     

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