Latest post Wed, Mar 12 2014 11:35 AM by Roger Van Duyn. 12 replies.
Page 1 of 1 (13 items)
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Mon, Feb 24 2014 6:54 PM

    Latest HDV or HD to Blu ray Workflow, and HD to DVD Workflow?

    I apologize if this should be posted under an existing thread..please correct if necessary.

    I am working with MC 4.0 on PC, and Xpress Pro on Mac.  I have only recently been working with HD or HDV material.  I am completely stumped with the best way to author HD material to both blu ray and standard DVDs. 

    I have spent hours reading threads, blogs, & forums both here and elsewhere, following their directives, and still cannot come up with a solution that works.  I've done transcoding, squeezing, non-squeezing, de-interlacing, not de-interlacing, pixel sizes and shapes, Avid codec, not Avid codec, everything imaginable along the way, etc. etc. 

    What is particularly frustrating is that searches for these threads here and elsewhere seem to result in suggestions from members that sound like the answer, but are dated 2005, 2007, 2009...and nothing really recent...so while they seem like definitive solutions, one has to think that in the ensuing years and software advances there are better answers.

    Can anyone help?  I have the Sorenson and Avid DVD that came with 4.0, but am happy to upgrade however necessary to deliver the goods.  I just don't want to start buying or downloading a bunch of Avid or third-party software suggested in various threads without knowing if they are the latest and most definitive answer.  Or is there nothing definitive, even now?  Please help this lost soul. 

    If I have short programs, I wish to have them fill a DVD or blu ray as much as possible--namely, with the ability to control compression so that the short program doesn't get compressed further than absolutely necessary, or doesn't get compressed at all.

    If I have a long program (hour to 2 hours), I need to be able to fit them on a blu ray or DVD. 

    Thank you very much for your time and trouble!

  • Mon, Feb 24 2014 9:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Latest HDV or HD to Blu ray Workflow, and HD to DVD Workflow?

    OK some information for you:

    HDV isn't really HD it's 1440 pixels wide not 1920 so if you capture or ingest it you have the option to ingest at that size or expand it to full HD 1920.

    HDV can be interlaced or Progressive (or PSF which is prgressive in an interlaced format) So you need to know what you will have.

    You need to decide if you want a Progressive look or an interlaced look. DVD and Blu-ray can be interlaced or progressive but you normally make the final file as 50i but with pSF content.

    You only need to de-interlace if you have interlaced source and nned a progressive output.

    You will need to compress the final output (which for HD will likely be 60GB an hour) for a Blu-ray that's ok but for  DVD you are pushing it at 90 minutes runtime. At 2 hours you will need a well setup VBR encode at the right datarate.

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

    Filed under:
  • Mon, Feb 24 2014 10:12 PM In reply to

    • serggio
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Jan 27 2010
    • Posts 156
    • Points 2,025

    Re: Latest HDV or HD to Blu ray Workflow, and HD to DVD Workflow?

    Pat Horridge:
    You need to decide if you want a Progressive look or an interlaced look. DVD and Blu-ray can be interlaced or progressive but you normally make the final file as 50i but with pSF content.

    what is pSF content?

    Gigabyte P55M-UD2 / INTEL CORE I5-760 2.8GHZ/RAM 16G DDR3/GTX 470 AND Quadro FX 580(275.89)/WD 1.5 GIGA(OS)/4x500GB western digital black caviar with RAID... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Feb 25 2014 3:49 AM In reply to

    • jwrl
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Melbourne, Australia
    • Posts 8,418
    • Points 97,405

    Re: Latest HDV or HD to Blu ray Workflow, and HD to DVD Workflow?

    serggio:
    what is pSF content?
    It's progressive,Segmented Frame.  In other words, it's an interlaced format with progressive media content.  For example, if you're working with 30 pSF you will have 30 interlaced frames (or 60 fields), in which the motion content updates every frame.  The end result is a progressive playout using interlaced media.

    If your footage is pSF you need do nothing more to it to make it progressive.  It already effectively is.

    MC 7.0.4 - Asus P6T Deluxe V2 mobo - Intel i7 920 2.66GHz - Windows 7 Ult64 SP1 - nVidia Quadro FX 1800 - 16 Gbyte low latency DDR3 RAM - Internal 8 Tb... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Feb 25 2014 6:26 AM In reply to

    Re: Latest HDV or HD to Blu ray Workflow, and HD to DVD Workflow?

    Thank you, Pat, for your quick response.  However I am afraid I am no closer to getting a workflow.

    I am aware of the difference between HDV and HD...I mention both because I deal with both.  I mention the interlace/deinterlace, avid codec/non avid codec, same as source, etc. issues as collateral complications, as many of my trials with outputting have resulted in severely jagged image, sound sync problems, etc., and there are so many variables in settings when exporting.

    Could you help me with a basic workflow that retains the best image...HD to blu ray, or HD to DVD?  Using old discussions, I've been transcoding the sequence first to DNxHD...then trying all manner of exports: QT movie, reference, etc....then being stumped with compression--both pre-author and burn--procedure and software suggestions.

    In the threads people mention Bitvice, Squeeze, DVDit, on and on...but these are all ancient posts.  Please help!

    Thanks--

     

  • Tue, Feb 25 2014 7:48 AM In reply to

    Re: Latest HDV or HD to Blu ray Workflow, and HD to DVD Workflow?

    I'm not sure I can here.

    What you ask is an understanding of what many take years to establish.

    Knowing what your source content is (in terms of interlaced and progressive) is one of the first steps in working a workflow. Understanding the source codecs and the edit codecs the second step in understanding. Finally getting to grips with the requirements of the deliverables creation the last step. Each step involves an understanding of the processes and technoligies involved.

    There isn't one process (unless you only every have one source format and one delivery requirement). The process has to be adapted to suit the source content (which could easily be a mixture of formats) the editing steps needed and then what the finally delivery will need to be.

    As you mentioned some of your tests have produced poor results and you need to unpick and understand why.

    The company I work for deliver certified Avid training but the bespoke training we develop and deliver isn't about teaching people a process it's more about teaching people the theory of whats happening so they can develop the process.

    I guess the closest I could offer to a workflow would be to work backwards.

    From a known HD source file (lets assume it's progressive) work out how to make an HD Blu-ray disc that looks good for source content of 30 mins, 60 mins, 90 mins, 120 mins

    When you are happy you have that sorted work out how to do the same to make a DVD (this will be harder as you need to scale the HD to SD and then encode to MPEG2 and retain quality.

    Once you have that sorted do the same for an interlaced source file and produce interlaced Bluray and DVD.

    Now the above steps are just the final delivery part of the workflow you need and some folks specialise in thsi as their sole part of the post process so you can imiagine it takes some practical and understanding to just get that part optimised to work flawlessly everytime.

    Your then just left with working out the ingest process, the edit process and the export process.

    We haven't covered making progressive file deliverables for the web which woudl include de-interlacing as well.

    The above could all be discovered searching the web and with trial and error but I dread to imagine how many weeks, months that would take sifting the good from the bad. That's why so many folks go the certified training route to ensure they get concise acurate relevant training to fast track that learing process.

     

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

    Filed under:
  • Tue, Feb 25 2014 11:39 AM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Feb 8 2006
    • Sweden
    • Posts 13,346
    • Points 159,365

    Re: Latest HDV or HD to Blu ray Workflow, and HD to DVD Workflow?

    theaterhopper:
    people mention Bitvice, Squeeze, DVDit, on and on...but these are all ancient posts.  Please help!

    Thanks--

    For Dvd encodings Bitvice still rules i think, it´s a Mac only application though

    For normal BD and Dvd authorings TAW5 will fill your needs and it also does the encode from QT refs or SAS exported files to BD or DVD.

    Appr 80 - 100 dollars in total cost

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

  • Tue, Feb 25 2014 3:29 PM In reply to

    Re: Latest HDV or HD to Blu ray Workflow, and HD to DVD Workflow?

    I just went through the same process with 1080 30p footage shot AVCHD on a Sony camera. using Sorenson and Avid DVD the same as you here is my workflow. Edit in 1080/29.97, then change  project setting to

    Avid project setting for export 720P/29.97, raster dimension 1280X720

    Export as QT reference - 16x9 square, RGB, no Avid Codec, use marks, use enabled tracks

    Open Sorenson (I have Squeeze 9 so my workflow will be differrent) Drag just QT movie file (audio will link)

    In the Aspect Window set it to 16X9 (this is what you're brinbing in)

    In the Crop window (this is what you're outputting) set it to 4X3

    Then select the MPEG 2 preset, Elementary stream, apply, open preset, select letter box or pillar 720x480

    THis makes a 720X480 for standard DVD letter boxed 16x9.

    Bring it into Avid DVD, select Full Screen , project type and burn.

    Hope that helps. Greg

     

     

    HP Z800- 2 Xeon Quad Core Processors 2.93 GHZ,24 GB Ram, 2 X 1TB 7.2 RPM sata internal drives, Windows 7, sp1, 64-bit Avid MC 7.0.2 - Matrox Mini-02,NVidia... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Feb 25 2014 4:49 PM In reply to

    Re: Latest HDV or HD to Blu ray Workflow, and HD to DVD Workflow?

    Hello TheaterHopper!

     

    This isn't the absolute latest method, but it's my current method.

    I don't know if this will work in Avid MC 4, but it did for me in MC 5, MC 5.5 and now MC 6

    For my work in HDV,  the two most important steps for me are:

    1) A video mixdown to DNxHD 145

    2) Then export a QT reference using the mixdown to either Sorenson or Avid DVD

     

    When I have another codec such as AVCHD with my main HDV, the two above two steps still apply.

    Another poster mentioned AW.  I'm considering moving to that instead of using Avid DVD. However, Avid DVD still seems to be doing an adequate job for me right now.

    One gotcha, be sure to tell Avid DVD if you are using single layer DVDs or dual layer DVDs, otherwise the space estimates are going to be way off.  Also, if you are running out of space to fit everything on the disk, then you'll have to dink around in the settings. Otherwise, I just leave them set to the defaults, which normally look good to my eyes.

    Douglas has a tutorial that explains this in more detail.

    Hope this helps.

     

    MC 6.0.4,Gateway FX6800, i7 920 Processor, Windows 10 Pro (upgraded from Win 7 Pro 64 SP1), 6gb Ram, GeForce GT 710 (2gb), 2 JVC HM170U Camcorders, 1 Canon... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 27 2014 7:18 AM In reply to

    • jwrl
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Melbourne, Australia
    • Posts 8,418
    • Points 97,405

    Re: Latest HDV or HD to Blu ray Workflow, and HD to DVD Workflow?

    Gregory Pettys:
    In the Aspect Window set it to 16X9 (this is what you're brinbing in)

    In the Crop window (this is what you're outputting) set it to 4X3

    Why do that, Gregory?  That way you're losing vertical resolution.  Every DVD player that I've encountered will automatically handle 16:9 flagged media on a 4:3 display.  You don't need to specifically encode it as 4:3.

    The advantage of encoding as 16:9 is that you can set up your DVD player to play back either cropped or letterboxed on a 4:3 display - your choice.  It will display correctly on a 16:9 monitor with no further action.

    The disadvantage of encoding it as 4:3 letterboxed is when you come to play it on a 16:9 display you end up with a little screen in the middle of your 16:9 monitor.  Of course you can zoom, but this just degrades the image.

    Better to do it the right way I would have thought.

    MC 7.0.4 - Asus P6T Deluxe V2 mobo - Intel i7 920 2.66GHz - Windows 7 Ult64 SP1 - nVidia Quadro FX 1800 - 16 Gbyte low latency DDR3 RAM - Internal 8 Tb... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Mar 12 2014 4:48 AM In reply to

    Re: Latest HDV or HD to Blu ray Workflow, and HD to DVD Workflow?

    YOU DID IT, GREG!!!  Fantastic--this workflow you outlined works wonderfully, and I have been able to burn DVDs left and right from my HDV projects.  Your assistance on this is INVALUABLE!  Forgive me for taking so long to respond.

    Thank you also to the others who responded.  While I recognize there are many other workflows for other scenarios, I needed one that works simply and NOW.  And this works.  Thanks so much. 

    I have a couple follow-up questions:  first, why do I need to change the project from 1080 to 720 prior to export to QT?  Just wondering why we need to reduce the resolution. 

    Second, when I choose "Elementary," my audio is not coming out from my QT reference in Squeeze in a format that AvidDVD will import.  So I have been exporting from the MC sequence a second time, this time choosing "Link to Audio Only"/.wav, and then bringing that .wav file over to join the M2v video file in AvidDVD.  Works fine, but I was wondering if I'm missing something in your workflow.

    Third--and this may or may not be merely something related to my older version of Squeeze--when Squeeze is 98% finished on the compression, I get the alert "Squeeze had encountered a problem and needs to close.  You may lose what you've been working on."  I panicked at first, as this happened time after time, usually after 9 or 11 hours of running (not fun).  But somehow, I found that the M2v is there, intact and ready to place into Avid DVD anyway.  I'm grateful for that, but wondered if you've got a bead on that.  I also sometimes get a "Failed" status message, but with the same result--the file is there anyway.

    I am intrigued by what this last post mentions about 16:9/4:3.  Should I try not selecting 4:3, and instead....what setting should I use?

    Thanks again--
    Brad 

     

  • Wed, Mar 12 2014 10:22 AM In reply to

    Re: Latest HDV or HD to Blu ray Workflow, and HD to DVD Workflow?

    If you set the project to 720 you are exporting a reduced quality HD file. 1280x720 as opposed to 1920x1080 (but your HDV sources are only 1440x1080 anyway). But if you are happy with the result and only need a working solution then it works.

    In Squeeze the audio format you are choosing maynot be correct. Elementary just means the video and audio should be seperate files as opposed to multiplexed together. But within Squeeze you still have to choose the correct audio format etc.

    the 16:9 4:3 choice just "flags" the output to tell the next process how to handle the aspect. As long as the final MPEG created is flagged correctly and you set the movie properties in AVid DVD to be right it should be fine.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

    Filed under:
  • Wed, Mar 12 2014 11:35 AM In reply to

    Re: Latest HDV or HD to Blu ray Workflow, and HD to DVD Workflow?

    theaterhopper:

     

    Third--and this may or may not be merely something related to my older version of Squeeze--when Squeeze is 98% finished on the compression, I get the alert "Squeeze had encountered a problem and needs to close.  You may lose what you've been working on."  I panicked at first, as this happened time after time, usually after 9 or 11 hours of running (not fun). 

     

    Brad, what's with this 9 or 11 hours stuff?  Did you try the simple two step approach from my post.  Rephrased:

    1.  Do a simple video mixdown of your HDV timeline to DNxHD 145

    2.  Export your HDV timeline using the mixdown for your main video track as a QT  Reference

    Then just import your QT reference into Avid DVD.  It ALWAYS works for me if the timeline is less than 80 minutes or so long.

    The whole process is relatively quick.  Certainly nowhere near "9 or 11 hours."  The mixdown takes a half hour or so at most. I go get a cup of coffee or something.

    The QT Reference a couple of minutes. 

    When Avid DVD is making the DVD it takes maybe an hour, maybe less.  I don't sit there and watch it.  I come back after a while and it's done.  It worked the same way on the older versions for me.  I don't make many DVDs any more, but it still worked a couple of months ago when a  client wanted DVDs.

    You're killin' yourself man doing it that long way! My PC is vintage 2009 off the shelf from Best Buy. The whole process takes maybe a couple of hours.

    Again, look for Douglas's tutorials on Avid DVD.  They are some of his oldest tut's.  They go into more detail, but it's really just a couple of simple steps.  HDV has been around for ages.  Douglas's tuts have been up for years.  They're great!

    I hope this helps.  Back in 2009 I went through a little of what you're going through. It was MC 4 something, the crossgrade from the old Avid Liquid.  Same workflow still works on newer MC.

    Since the bulk of my source material is HDV, my timeline is HDV.  This HDV project setting handles the smattering of other HD material I incorporate from time to time, usually the AVCHD or MP4 from cards from newer cameras in a totally seamless manner.  Don't know how you would deal with this in MC4, since I'm using MC6. 

    Is the bulk of your source material HDV or something else?  Camera types?  I'd set my timeline to what the bulk of the source material is.

    MC 6.0.4,Gateway FX6800, i7 920 Processor, Windows 10 Pro (upgraded from Win 7 Pro 64 SP1), 6gb Ram, GeForce GT 710 (2gb), 2 JVC HM170U Camcorders, 1 Canon... [view my complete system specs]
Page 1 of 1 (13 items)

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller