Latest post Sun, Dec 22 2013 12:57 PM by Isaac T.. 12 replies.
Page 1 of 1 (13 items)
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Wed, Dec 4 2013 11:11 PM

    4:4:4 and 4:2:2

    Hello everyone,

    I've had a request from a client to make some 4:4:4 deliveries to HDCam-SR. This is the first time I've done a 4:4:4 delivery, and I was wondering if there's anyone here who could help me clear up a few things.

    I'm using MC 6.0.1, a Mojo DX, and an SRW-5500. I know how to set up Avid and the Mojo for RGB 4:4:4, but we don't have the HKSR5003 option board that allows me to switch the SRW-5500 System Signal to 4:4:4. We also have a SRW-5800, but I believe it's a pre-2008 5800/1 model because again I have no control over the System Signal. We can't really afford a $13,000 processing board right now, so what I'm wondering is this:

    If the Avid project and the Mojo are both set to 4:4:4, will the picture itself still be 4:4:4 if laid back to a 4:2:2 tape?

    I'm still gathering information from the client, but from what I understand so far the tapes will be used for DVD authoring and not any kind of broadcast. We have done similar deliveries (HDSRs for DVD authoring) before, and I just checked our back-ups of those tapes and they're 4:2:2 as well.

    If anyone can give me a bit of information in this so I can speak a little more confidently when I bring my boss some option, that would be amazing.

    Thanks all so much,
    Shannon

  • Thu, Dec 5 2013 12:00 AM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
    • Posts 3,485
    • Points 42,025

    Re: 4:4:4 and 4:2:2

    shenanigans:


    If the Avid project and the Mojo are both set to 4:4:4, will the picture itself still be 4:4:4 if laid back to a 4:2:2 tape?

    No.  You need the option cards to create a true 4:4:4 recording.

    My question is what is the source?  If you have not started out and maintained a 4:4:4 pipeline, then there is no quality / value created by making a 4:4:4 master.

    Jef

     

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.11.0 but playing w 2018.12.6|OS 10.14.x - iMac 2017 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Thu, Dec 5 2013 12:45 AM In reply to

    Re: 4:4:4 and 4:2:2

    Unfortunately I haven't yet recieved any animation from then yet.  In the past, what we've been sent for the episodes has been 4:2:2.  But since this a movie not for broadcast and instead going straight to DVD, I'm not sure if that's going to be the case this time.

  • Thu, Dec 5 2013 1:42 AM In reply to

    Re: 4:4:4 and 4:2:2

    1. The Mojo DX is incapable of outputting SDI 4:4:4 signal. The single SDI output is limited to 4:2:2.

    2. You need the optional RGB board to create a 4:4:4 master tape.

    3. The 5500 supports "SQ" (440 Mb/s "standard quality") while the 5800 can do "HQ" (880 Mb/s "high quality").

    4. Renting the deck with the optional board might be a more cost effective way instead of buying an expensive board that you may rarely us. May need to rent a Nitris DX also.

    (disclaimer: I work for a post production rental facility here in NYC)

    5. A potential more cost effective solution for you is to offer the client file deliverables instead of tape.

     

     

    MC 8.6.1, Windows 10, ASROCK X99M, Intel 5930K, Zotac GTX970, 32GB RAM, Transcend 512GB M.2 SSD & Dell U2713H. MBP 2012 Thunderbolt, OSX 10.10.5, MC... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Dec 5 2013 2:11 AM In reply to

    Re: 4:4:4 and 4:2:2

    Dom Q. Silverio:
    1. The Mojo DX is incapable of outputting SDI 4:4:4 signal. The single SDI output is limited to 4:2:2.

    So for my own education, within MC's Video Output Tool, even if the HDMI Color Space is set to 'Convert to RGB', the Mojo DX will still only output a 4:2:2 signal?

  • Thu, Dec 5 2013 3:23 AM In reply to

    Re: 4:4:4 and 4:2:2

    I am unsure about the HDMI pipeline. I do not know if the 4:4:4 sampling is maintained the entire time for HDMI output.

    Nevertheless, the 5500/5800 requires dual SDI for input.

    MC 8.6.1, Windows 10, ASROCK X99M, Intel 5930K, Zotac GTX970, 32GB RAM, Transcend 512GB M.2 SSD & Dell U2713H. MBP 2012 Thunderbolt, OSX 10.10.5, MC... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Dec 5 2013 8:59 AM In reply to

    Re: 4:4:4 and 4:2:2

     

    HDMI as a format can support 4:4:4 in RGB (but not sure if the Mojo DX can output that but you can't get an HDMI signal into an SR deck you have to go HD-SDi and the HD-SDI signal can only be 4:2:2 (Rec 709) to get 4:4:4 (actually it's 4;4:4:4) you work in dual link mode where 2 4;2:2 channels are added together.

    You can create a 4;4:4 RGB color space in MC but not output it via the Mojo DX you need Nitris DX for that.

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

    -

    Follow me on Twitter Pat_H_VET

    Filed under:
  • Thu, Dec 5 2013 9:08 AM In reply to

    Re: 4:4:4 and 4:2:2

    Straight to DVD and you need 4:4:4 output? Really?

    DVD is 4:2:0 and lets not emntion the resolution drop...

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

    -

    Follow me on Twitter Pat_H_VET

    Filed under:
  • Thu, Dec 5 2013 3:22 PM In reply to

    Re: 4:4:4 and 4:2:2

    Pat Horridge:
    Straight to DVD and you need 4:4:4 output?
    If they require an archival master in the highest quality tape delivery format available, HD-SR at 4:4:4 would be it.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Dec 5 2013 7:34 PM In reply to

    Re: 4:4:4 and 4:2:2

    Thanks everyone so much for all your help, I think I'm finally starting to make some sense of the chaos.

    Just got the first batch of media today and it is definitely 4:2:2, in which case there's nothing to be gained from a 4:4:4 layback, correct?

  • Thu, Dec 5 2013 10:04 PM In reply to

    Re: 4:4:4 and 4:2:2

    Nothing to be gained, no. Make sure they're not tied to a 4:4:4 delivery requirement from a sales agent, though.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Dec 17 2013 7:25 PM In reply to

    Re: 4:4:4 and 4:2:2

    So the saga continues.  No ties to a 4:4:4 delivery requirement, 4:2:2 media, but still no give.  Gonna be some hefty purchases in my future.

    Anyway, one last follow up question.  Does anybody know of any applications (can handle Mac or PC) that can clearly identify a clip as being either 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 or what have you?

  • Sun, Dec 22 2013 12:57 PM In reply to

    • Isaac T.
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Jan 9 2006
    • New York / Knoxville, TN
    • Posts 754
    • Points 8,905

    Re: 4:4:4 and 4:2:2

    VideoSpec willl tell you.

    http://videospec.free.fr/english/

    Mid-2010 Mac Pro • 2018 MacBook Pro [view my complete system specs]

    isaact.co | Twitter | Instagram | Vimeo

     

    Writer: The Frame.io WORKFLOW Guide - http://workflow.frame.io/

     

    Post Workflow Consultant - https://isaact.co/

Page 1 of 1 (13 items)

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller