Latest post Wed, Nov 6 2013 12:28 AM by ajrnz. 8 replies.
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  • Tue, Nov 5 2013 3:04 AM

    • ajrnz
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    Importing BWAV - Tape field being dropped

    So anyone know why the Tape field is now being dropped when importing BWAV files (console sees the field but avid dose nothing with it -- it may have been like this for the past year), use to work with early V6 and, early V5.5 and I think everything V5 and below, its making our protools work flow a pain, we're now thinking of getting the assistants to manually modify the tape field to include this data, but seems silly that it was removed in the first place....
    Is there a fix for this? Was there a reason for removing it, Or is the best option to only use older versions of avid for the assistant station and never upgrade.....

     

    Cheers

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  • Tue, Nov 5 2013 4:10 AM In reply to

    • Odd Duck
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    Re: Importing BWAV - Tape field being dropped

    Hi Ajrnz,

    Do you have any more info on this problem?
    I'm curious, and scared, of more audio problems!!
    What is creating the BWAV you are importing?

    Thanks

  • Tue, Nov 5 2013 5:47 AM In reply to

    • ajrnz
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    Re: Importing BWAV - Tape field being dropped

    Yes! We have done a lot of research on this issue as we started seeing the tape column missing on a lot of our protools projects on some clips and not others (now knowing its a version issue)

    The BWAV's are being created by a DEVA field recorder, not sure which model, but we see it across the board (all models not just DEVAs) , its the column not being imported, if you open console (Ctrl+6) you can see the coloumn IS in the BWAV, but just isn't filled in by the newer vwesions of MC, Havent REALLY noticed till now because it seemed intermittitant, thinking it was something the assistant was doing, and in a way it was, to speed up importing they were using 2 computers one V6.5 and one V6 (an older version that did it the old way) so we were getting mixed results.

     

    I'm guessing one of the programmers figgured the tape column was only for digitised clips not imported and decided to ignore it on BWAV's

  • Tue, Nov 5 2013 7:27 AM In reply to

    Re: Importing BWAV - Tape field being dropped

    ajrnz:
    the Tape field is now being dropped when importing BWAV

    Can you e-mail me a small sample file? I don't have access to Deva files, only Cantar files and mostly use ALE's for additional metadata, but if this reproducable I might be able to escalate this issue.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Nov 5 2013 7:49 AM In reply to

    • ajrnz
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    Re: Importing BWAV - Tape field being dropped

    Sure can, Yeah using ALE's I think works, but I dont think the DEVA uses ALE in its format, I'll send a file now, to your listed e-mail address.

  • Tue, Nov 5 2013 8:04 AM In reply to

    • ajrnz
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    Re: Importing BWAV - Tape field being dropped

    Job ter Burg:

    ajrnz:
    the Tape field is now being dropped when importing BWAV

    Can you e-mail me a small sample file? I don't have access to Deva files, only Cantar files and mostly use ALE's for additional metadata, but if this reproducable I might be able to escalate this issue.

     

    The e-mail address didn't work the file is around 5Mb

     

     

  • Tue, Nov 5 2013 5:10 PM In reply to

    • Odd Duck
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    Re: Importing BWAV - Tape field being dropped

    Spent the morning having plent of fun with this. I'm sure it has been driving you seriously crazy.

    Unfortunately, I kind of skipped v6 to v6.5 on back to back jobs. Only used it for stereoscopic resizes and AAFs when working with limited version 5.5. Below is my test on v7.

    Most files I get are from the SoundDevices range. I cannot confirm the various device's firmware, which could be the issue...
    I did a check on MC v7.0.2 osx10.7, with old and new files I had at hand, most files look perfect. Getting as expected, either a folder date name or custom if it was allocated.

    However! I have found a few files, sometimes from the same sound roll no less, which as you say, have a BEXT field read correctly for TAPE value as seen in console, and then details after not carried across in to the bin.

    I took the files into Wave Agent (and also tested on Quesosoft, but not on BWF widget), modified the TAPE field. Didn't work. Then tried filename formatting through Wave Agent to a default scene & take structure. Didn't work… Seems like those files just won't budge (see pics - BTEXT ref and various TAPE name changes).

    Out of curiosity, can I what havoc the empty tape field is doing to your PT workflow? Is it PT reimporting or change conforming, or using needing the tape field to search/reference?
    We are now asked to give the dial editors all our MXF audio from Avid media directory. An assistant also does an Avid bin ALE and an AAF Scene roll. Has made re-conforming from identical media easy. Well, changes are never easy.

    ALE is of course the easy solution. Fine for day rolls and big batches. But when you are in a rush to get a single file in… UGH!

     

     

     

  • Tue, Nov 5 2013 8:59 PM In reply to

    • ajrnz
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    Re: Importing BWAV - Tape field being dropped

    Crikey! Thats even worse, having some come in with tape and some without! This could also explane why sometimes we see the tape field populated and other times not, I thought it was because of using multiply versions.

    I'm not the best to explane what exactly happens in PT I'll get one of our sound guys to improve on this, but we do recomform the whole timeline in PT due to the editors using the mix track and us needing all mic tracks in our PT sequences and for some reason out workflow revolves around the tape filed being populated, I'll see if I can get a better way of putting that.

     

    Andrew

  • Wed, Nov 6 2013 12:28 AM In reply to

    • ajrnz
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    Re: Importing BWAV - Tape field being dropped

    Heres a responce from our soundie:
    It's difficult to explain but our audio workflow is basically to relink the audio in the AAF supplied from editorial back to the original field recorder audio using Pro Tools' field recorder workflow.


    1) Assistant editor receives audio cards from the sound recordist and imports them into an Avid bin then auto-syncs them to the appropriate video files (I'm a sound guy so please forgive any incorrect terminology) 2) Editor cuts the show, only using the mix track audio (usually track 1 from the field recorder). 3) Once the edit is locked, the assistant exports separate AAFs for the dialogue, temp FX and music. It's important not to embed the audio in the AAF because doing so seems to remove the BWF metadata. This is really only important for the dialogue/field audio. We ask for the dialogue AAF to be exported using MXF media with 100frame handles. 4) The dialogue editor imports the dialogue AAF into a new session, linking to the MXF media rather than copying it or forcing it to the session target format (which would convert it to wav media). 5) We then designate the tracks that have come from the AAF (usually 3 or 4 tracks) as "Field Recorder Guide Tracks" in Pro Tools and select the folder containing all of the original, multichannel field audio as the place to search. We can then expand the tracks that have come from the AAF using the media from the field recorder. Pro Tools does this by searching the metadata of the files on the timeline and comparing it to the metadata of the files in its database. We have a limited number of options for which metadata fields to compare: Shoot date, Scene, Scene and Slate, Sound Roll, Tape Name, Sound Roll to Tape Name, Tape Name to Sound Roll and first X characters of the file name (there might be more but those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head).
    The problem here is that it searches within the project itself as well as the folder with the original field audio in it. This results in it putting a copy of the files from the AAF on the expanded tracks as well as the original field audio and almost never on the same tracks. This means that we have to painstakingly go through the timeline and identify which clip is from the AAF and which clips are from the original field audio. Sometimes the AAF audio can be on the same track for a whole scene, but sometimes each clip is on a different track. For a 45min show this can take up to two hours. 
    When we discovered that embedding the audio media in the AAF was removing the metadata we experimented with different output methods and found that the sound roll information (generated by the recorder) would appear in different columns in the Pro Tools database depending of whether it was MXF or BWF media. BWF displayed the information in the Sound Roll column (this is how it appears for the original field audio) but MXF displayed the same information in the Tape column. If the AAF is imported as MXF media, we can use the "Tape Name to Sound Roll" option for relinking to the field audio and it won't put any of the audio files from the AAF on the expanded tracks. This means that we don't have to go through the process of identifying the redundant clips on the timeline because the only audio on the expanded tracks is the correct field audio, and the whole process can take as little as 10mins.
    This may not seem like a big deal but we don't have an assistant in the sound department and our turnaround time is so tight that every minute counts. We also have a slightly peculiar workflow that requires us to export a copy of the relinked session as quickly as we can so that it can go to the ADR supervisor for spotting.

     

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