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  • Tue, Mar 20 2012 8:28 AM

    Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    Hi,

    I seems EDL manager doesn't read TC from the S3D Clips, but rather calculates TCs for "S3D Left" and "S3D Right" totally wrong - one of them is always right (the one coming from the 2D clip starting the earliest), the other one is always offset by the difference between L/R starting TC (even though L/R TCs are synced perfectly, and S3D clips too)

    I tried this on two different projects with different sources and workflows, and there's definitely a big problem, probably with EDL Manager. Here is very straightforward setup:

    1) I have L/R master clips (XDCAM or RED)
    2) they have same synced TC, but not same starting TC (record button wasn't pushed at the same time on two cameras)
    3) I create the S3D clip, syncing on TC
    4) I edit it - everything works inside MC6.
    5) When I output the EDL, EDL Manager gives a different TC to L/R images which are supposed to have the same TC:

    003 LE__0003 V C 14:38:11:00 14:38:21:00 01:00:31:09 01:00:41:09 
    * FROM CLIP NAME: LE__0003_01 

    003 RE--0004 V C 14:38:16:17 14:38:26:17 01:00:31:09 01:00:41:09
    * FROM CLIP NAME: RE--0004_01

    The correct TC is the left image TC (source 11:00, not 16:17). and the difference: 16:17-11:00 is exactly the difference between the start TCs of the two 2D master clips:
    LE__0003_01 Start TC 14:37:14:10
    RE--0004_01 Start TC 14:37:20:02

    in EDL manager, I chose "START TC" as source TC, because that's logical and that's the default, and none of the other works.

    Has anyone managed to export any kind of EDL from a stereoscopic project, ever? It seems there is a HUGE problem here.

    Anyone experiencing the same show-stopping issues?

    David

    Media Composer 6.0.1 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, May 10 2012 1:44 PM In reply to

    Re: Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    Hi I'm having the same issues. No solution Yet

  • Thu, May 10 2012 2:21 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    Have either of you called support and got a case logged so they can try to reproduce it/log it? 

    Marianna 

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  • Thu, May 10 2012 2:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    yes, I filed an issue, got a very nice answer from Adam Laufersweiler. The case was closed and made it a "bug report".

    By the way, here is a (partial) solution I've found and successfully used on a project.

     

    The idea is very simple: all TCs in the EDL seem to be calculated by EDL Manager with this simple (and wrong) formula:

    "TC of S3D Clip in Sequence for Left Eye" = "Start TC of 2D Left Masterclip" + ("Current S3D Clip TC in the Seq" - "Start TC of S3D Clip") So basically, the formula works if the start TCs of the S3D clip and the 2D masterclip are the SAME. Which always happens for one eye - the first one that started recording (or with sound, if sound started recording first). (by the way, this explains why the TCs with the decomposed sequence get even farther from the right ones, because decomposing trims the S3D StartTC to a small clips, that used in the sequence, but not the 2D master clips, so all the actual frames that end up in the EDL are going to be stuck towards the beginning of the 2D masterclips - so we'll get the clapboard and stuff instead of the real film) So the solution is simple: get ALL the 2D Masterclips to have the same Start TC as the S3D Clip. And to do that, we can take the start TC of the S3D Clip (that is, the minimum start TC between 2D masterclips and sound clip if present in the S3D clip) and put it in the "Auxiliary TC 1" of both 2D Master clips. Inline image 4 And then, we ask EDL Manager to use its (wrong) formula with Aux TC1 instead of Start TC. Voilà! All sync issues are gone: Inline image 2 Inline image 1 This workaround works perfectly with the movie I was working on (after a bit of work: putting the lowest of the image/sound StartTCs into Aux TC1 for all master clips), but unfortunately if TCs are not synchronized and Clapboard Sync is used, one has to modify by hand the StartTC to put in AuxTC1 to account for the TC differences for synced frames. But after trying a bit, Carlo (the editor) and I found it quicker to just redo the sync in the Grading system (Resolve/Pablo) - which is also kind of a pain. So now, Carlo will simply bypass S3D clips altogether and use group clips of L/R masterclips, then copy them on V2 and change between left/right... Good luck with everyone, and we're hopefully excepting a real bug resolution from Avid David

    Media Composer 6.0.1 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Nov 15 2012 11:04 AM In reply to

    • kevin_d
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    Re: Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    It would be great to get a rough idea when this issue will be rectified.

    It still seems that this serious issue still persists.

    It looks fine in Avid MC's timecode window but it is still not translating correctly when being sent out for EDL's.

    For conform work for a stereo feature, this is an absolute nightmare.

     

  • Tue, Nov 20 2012 12:08 AM In reply to

    Re: Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    Hi, I corrected the problem. Maybe we need to talk 

    ericmarapin@gmail.com

  • Tue, Nov 20 2012 5:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    Hi,

    I did report the Stereo-EDL issue to Avid back in March, and it was officialized into a bug report with Adam Laufersweiler.

    Marianna, do you have any follow-up on that?

    If anyone had new experiences about it, I'd be interested in discussing it and see what we can do

    David (contact __ at __ parallellcinema.fr)

    Media Composer 6.0.1 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Nov 20 2012 7:42 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    Hi

    This bug UDevC00169291, was fixed in 6.0.3.2.   Have you upgraded?

    however UDevC00169584, which is EDLs from S3D sequences having sync problems from left eye to right eye is still under investigation by development and not fixed yet - which means it isnt an easy one too fix.

    marianna 

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  • Thu, Nov 29 2012 11:03 AM In reply to

    Re: Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    Hi Marianna,

    I'm working on a 3D feature film and running into the same issues. This is a serious flaw with Avid's otherwise quite good S3D toolset.

    Many of our S3D clips don't have the same Start TC but we manually line them up with slates during Dailies and then create L and R DNxHD proxies. When we create S3D clips in Avid we choose "Sync Contributing Clips Using > First Frame" so visually everything is in sync but TC's can be 0 - 4 frames different.

    D.I. facility has just reported back after a test conform that,

    "TC in about 20% of S3D clips we receive are off anywhere from 2 seconds to 4 minutes compared with what's in the EDL."

    Ie EDL Manager is mangling the Timecode in the Left and Right EDL's. None of our TC's are more than a few frames different so not sure how clips are getting up to 4 minutes out.

    So the 6.0.3.2 fix UDevC00169291 stops EDL Manager crashing sometimes but there isn't a fix for the actual stereoscopic EDL timecode mangling yet?

    Please keep us posted as this is an urgent problem for us.

    Thanks

     

    I'm actually using Avid on Windows 7 not Mac but same problem.

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  • Mon, Dec 3 2012 6:33 PM In reply to

    • kevin_d
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    Re: Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    Hey.  I sent an email to Eric and David to talk about this.

    Sorry, did not see your post till after I sent it.

    Hopefully a workaround that is not too painful can be sorted out until this is properly taken care of by the powers at Avid.

    AAF's don't seem to work out very well either.

     

    Hope to have some solutions soon.

  • Wed, Apr 24 2013 2:18 PM In reply to

    Re: Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    Bump! This is still killing us. Please help Avid.

    I'm thinking it's a bug with how EDL Manager interprets timecode from .S3D clips in a stereoscopic sequence, so wondering if a workaround is to duplicate my stereoscopic Full sequence into separate Left eye only and Right eye only projects, then load those individually into EDL manager and tell EDL manager that they're Monoscopic to avoid the timecode mangling.

    Will test and update.

     

  • Wed, Apr 24 2013 3:42 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    Just pinged support to get a status on the bug #

    stand by

    marianna 

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  • Wed, Apr 24 2013 5:07 PM In reply to

    Re: Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    Thanks Marianna.

    I'm thinking there must be some other big stereoscopic projects out there who are offlining in Avid and have run into this issue. Avid's stereo tools provide a great workflow but this key final hurdle ( getting accurate EDL's out to go to a finishing system ) is a real nightmare.

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  • Wed, Apr 24 2013 8:17 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    Just got a note back from the Product Champion who bumped the bug up a notch in the list of fixes.  Doubtful for 7 but it is a higher priority now.  

    Marianna

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

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  • Thu, Apr 25 2013 9:42 AM In reply to

    Re: Serious flaw in EDL output of Stereoscopic projects?

    Thanks for the update Marianna.

    Am I correct in saying that this s3d EDL timecode bug is present in the latest versions of MC6, 6.5 and 7?

    We have a big 3D feature film starting D.I. in about 6 weeks, what sort of timeframe could we expect to see a fix?

    Are there any workarounds Avid can suggest in the meantime?

    Thanks

     

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