Latest post Mon, Dec 3 2012 2:28 AM by Sullah. 14 replies.
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  • Fri, Jan 13 2012 12:44 AM

    Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

    I just purchased MC6 today and am gearing up for my first project, which will be shot on the Canon 5D. My question is simple: what is the ideal workflow, given the following parameters:

    • There's no online. I want to deliver my finished product out of MC6 at the best possible quality. 

    • It's a short form project. Finished product will probably be a half dozen sequences, two to three minutes each. 

    • Specs: MacBook Pro 17-inch, late 2011. 2.4 GHz Intel Core i7. 8GB RAM. AMD Radeon HD. Lion 10.7. Promise Pegasus Thunderbolt RAID.

    My one experience using AMA with Media Composer 5.5 was disastrous, but it was a long-form project which needed to be onlined anyway. AMA was a mistake in that case. I'm open to trying it again with this short-form project, but I'll be just as happy or happier with a transcode, if I can maintain native quality.

    Any advice on this question (or anything I haven't asked) will be appreciated, especially pertaining to bugs I should be aware of and potential workarounds for them.

  • Fri, Jan 13 2012 1:13 AM In reply to

    • OliverPeters
    • Top 500 Contributor
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    Re: Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

    Read through my post here:

    http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/easy-canon-5d-post-–-round-iii/

    Towards the bottom it gets specific for Media Composer.

    - Oliver

     

  • Fri, Jan 13 2012 1:28 AM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

    I expect this will be very helpful. Thank you!

  • Fri, Jan 13 2012 5:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

    My workflow has been:

        - Link to AMA
        - Transcode to DNxHD 36
        - Edit as usual
        - When you have picture lock, relink your sequence back to AMA footage
        - Re-transcode (sequence only, with handles) to DNxHD 175
        - Output

    Works like a charm!

    Symphony v2019 | OS 10.13.6 • Nitris DX • 12-core MacPro (Mid 2012) • 36 GB RAM • Facilis Terrablock 24EX [view my complete system specs]

    -- Kevin

  • Fri, Jan 13 2012 5:30 PM In reply to

    • bobcat
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Jul 20 2006
    • Southwest, USA
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    Re: Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

    For short form I suggest that you transcode directly to DNxHD 175 after a selects process with AMA. Less chance of problems with relink and a simpler approach. Obviously this depends on many variables but one I have used for short form and not a ton of footage.

    Avid MC 6.5.2.1 with 27"iMac 2.8GHz Intel i7 OSX 10.8.3, 12GB memory, ATi Radeon HD 4850, Caldigit Raid [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jan 14 2012 2:30 PM In reply to

    • watchman
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    Re: Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

    I'm cutting a short at the moment with similar specs as yours (The specs are the same actually, except that your graphic card is better.)

    From my Promise Pegasus R4, with DNxHD175 transcoded footage, with 2-3 video tracks, with one track with global CC, 16-9 Mask and Film Grain, MC6 is flying realtime no glitches at all. Beautiful.

    Except for the CORE AUDIO nightmare, but I found a decent workaround for that.

    Just to warn you about some problems you might face in your workflow.

    Since you're not doing on-line, and if your product is not intended for broadcast, I advice you to inform yourself about confusing color spaces in Avid.

    There's a whole theory there about YCbCr vs RGB (this was quite usefull) I thought I solved it by importing everything as YCbCr 709 to preserve the maximum of D5's 0-255 RGB color range, but now I don't have full black masks and effects (black is not black, but rather dull gray). For someone who's not an Avid veteran this is a big mystery. Why, why, why? Avid sells MC6 as a software only solution which in fact is not fully functional without specialist hardware. Even with broadcast monitor I suspect that the problem of preserving the full 5D color range will remain.

    Please ask around before you mess up your color ranges. I'll be glad to hear from someone more experienced another explanation of how to preserve all data from 5d's CMOS sensor in Avid without on-lining in other software.

    MC6, Mac OS X Lion 10.7.2, MacBook Pro, 13-inch, Early 2011, 2.7 GHz Intel Core i7, 8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3, Intel HD Graphics 3000 512 MB, APPLE SSD TS512C... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 13 2012 2:01 AM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

    Hi Kevin,

    How do you do this if you are using dual system sound? Is it the same process? 

    Thanks,

    Ramsay

  • Thu, Nov 22 2012 7:04 PM In reply to

    • Sullah
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    Re: Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

    Kevin,

    Why this step?

    - Transcode to DNxHD 36

    Why not just edit from AMA and once you have picture lock just transcode the sequence to DNxHD 175?

     

    Thanks.

    Custom Built Core i7 950 @ 4.0Ghz / Asus P6X58D Premium / 12GB Ram / nVidia Quadro FX 3800 / ATX 1000 PSU / M-Audio Fast Track 8 x 8/ Windows 7 Ultimate... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Nov 22 2012 7:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

    As per my original post, AMA might well have worked for editing purposes, given that it's a short-form project, but in general, editing with AMA-linked media is much slower than working with Avid media. The benefits of a responsive editing machine during the creative phase far outweigh the inconvenience of an extra step at finishing.

  • Fri, Nov 23 2012 6:47 AM In reply to

    • Sullah
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    Re: Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

    I understand what you mean. Thank you.

    In your opinion, would it be safe to assume that with a machine able to work with AMA at the same speed as DNxHD the original trascoding step could be skipped?

     

    I'm going to test it out to see if the speed factor is hardware or software related.

    Custom Built Core i7 950 @ 4.0Ghz / Asus P6X58D Premium / 12GB Ram / nVidia Quadro FX 3800 / ATX 1000 PSU / M-Audio Fast Track 8 x 8/ Windows 7 Ultimate... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Nov 23 2012 6:50 PM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

     

    Theoretically, yes. If editing with AMA demonstrated no loss of speed compared to editing with DNxHD then I'd say it's just as good an option, maybe better, but with a caveat:

    Allowing the Avid to create its own media--whether through transcoding, straight import, or digitizing from tape--forces a uniformity of media type and creates a wholistic organization of the files that is far less prone to human error during the creative phase. In other words, once you've transcoded you can pretty much forget about your media files and where they live until you finish.

    As for the speed question: my understanding of the issue is that the difference is in how Avid accesses the media's metadata. When media is transcoded or digitized, the necessary timecode info, etc, is written into the bin and readily accessible. With AMA-linked media, the Avid needs to collect and process the metadata from each file, every single time you access a file, meaning every time you push play on a clip or a sequence. Once your project contains thousands (or tens of thousands) of media files, this process is way slow. If you're using a shared storage system like Unity, it is unbearably slow. The one time I tried it, I would push play, and then literally wait 7+ seconds for the system to respond.

    Do let us know if your tests show something different.

     

  • Fri, Nov 23 2012 10:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

    In my experience 5D footage is unusable in raw AMA form.  It barely plays at all.  You'll need to transcode first.

    MC 2018.9, Blackmagic UltraStudio 4K, 12-Core MacPro, 64 GB RAM, 24 TB Thunderbolt Storage [view my complete system specs]

    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth. Motion Inc

  • Sat, Nov 24 2012 3:45 AM In reply to

    • dingo1
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    Re: Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

    I am not surprised how many people have bad experiences with AMA footage.  I used to hate it because of the slowness issue (but I was on Unity) ..now on a un-networked Imac i7 12gig-t-bolt everything I seem to be able to edit directly from AMAed Canon 7D and 60D footage on externals on either long form or highly edited short form....for a while....then it slows down.  For me it slows down about the time I have a good rough, so I just transcode then....its weird....why would it get worse over time (more edits on the sequence starts to clog up the access speed???).  Hey it's better than it was.....wil more ram help?

    MC 7 on 2009 MacBook pro Symphony v2018.12 on iMac i7 48gig ram tons of firewire single drives [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Nov 24 2012 1:25 PM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

    I've got 64 gb of RAM and 5D footage is a no go for me.  I would imagine SSD's would help however.

    MC 2018.9, Blackmagic UltraStudio 4K, 12-Core MacPro, 64 GB RAM, 24 TB Thunderbolt Storage [view my complete system specs]

    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth. Motion Inc

  • Mon, Dec 3 2012 2:28 AM In reply to

    • Sullah
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    • Joined on Fri, May 6 2011
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    • Points 260

    Re: Canon 5D to Avid MC 6 work flow - short form

    Reporting back.

    Playback is smooth.

    Frame skipping (i.e. left or right arrow) in the composer is jerky.

    Queuing a specific point in the footage is not too smooth either.

    Editing works for a few hours then gets slower ...and then ever slowerER :-)

    Probably not suited for long projects.

    Bottom line: MC 5.5 can handle editing AMA from Canon 5D footage without transcoding (if your system can take it) but it slows the editing process down.

    If you're short on room on your drive and are editing a program 10 mins and under I'd say go for it and transcode at the end of the first rough cut. If you are editing a long program transcode in and then transcode out.

    Incidentally, what codec would you guys use to transcode if the final medium of delivery for your 5D footage is digital theater projection? (non DCP)

    Custom Built Core i7 950 @ 4.0Ghz / Asus P6X58D Premium / 12GB Ram / nVidia Quadro FX 3800 / ATX 1000 PSU / M-Audio Fast Track 8 x 8/ Windows 7 Ultimate... [view my complete system specs]
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